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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:46 pm 
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark, Earth, Universe
Hi,

I have a year old Canyon F8 and was changing the Syntace stem that the bike came with to a Deda Zero 100. Mounting the stem I used a torque-wrench set for 6nm. While tightening one of the bolt I heard a crunch and the forkshaft had a crack. I have had my torque-wrench checked and it's working fine.

I sent the fork to Canyon and I got a e-mail from them saying that the stem is incompatible with the fork. The reason is, that there is air between the 2 bolts. Please look at the picture (Deda stem to the left and Syntace stem to the right):

They say that they can only garantee that their fork work with Syntace stems, and that I should have called to check. Therefore they won't replace the fork. In the manual of the bike there is nothing about that the fork is special and only works with Syntace stems.

They have offered to sell me a new fork for 1/2 the price. I know my case is weak since I can't prove I didn't over-tightend the bolt. But my mood is still not too good because I feel I have done nothing wrong. What do you think about this? Should I stop crying and be happy that they will sell me a fork for half the price?


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
Your picture shows what they meant but doesn't explain it well.

The Sytace stem spreads more of the force to a larger area, while the Deda allows more force concentrated at the bolts.

It's not that there is distance between the bolts its that there is no material there...


That said I've NEVER heard a company say their fork is only good with a single brand / type of stem...

Is there anything on the sight or in their literature?




I would honestly say that I have never heard of anyone crushing a steer tube without overtightening it either, so you have a pretty reasonable thought in your head, and should probably go ahead with the purchase...

But I would LOVE to see a response from them in email or written form commenting on "syntace only". I think that's pretty silly.

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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:19 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:21 pm 
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Hi Pez,

What I meant with "air" between the bolts, is that there is no material. And as you say this means that the pressure is more concentrated at the bolt.

Canyon says in there instruction manual: "Canyon will not be held responsible for the fitness of any particular equipment combination". But they don't say anything about only to use certain types of stems (without air) or brands. It was over the phone they told me that they could only garantee the use of Syntace stems since it was the only brand they have tested. Again I know my case is weak since they got themselves covered. But I still feel let down that they don't write that their fork is so special that that it only works with Syntace stems.

Here is what they wrote me:

Dear Mr. Zak,

thanks for your request.
After the inspection of our engineers we can say that the Deda stem fits not
to our Race SLX fork. The problem is that the shaft of the stem have to be
closed. So the power of the torque can to disperse. You can see the difference
on the picture in the attachment.
As an special offer we can give you a new fork to the half price as regular.
The normal price for that fork is 389€. You can get this fork for 189€.

Please give us a response if this offer would be ok for you.

It`s important that a rebuilding with special parts in combination with carbon
parts are with a agreement with Canyon Bicycles.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:25 am 
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Holy fine print, Batman.

Ive got a Ritchey WCS stem on my Canyon fork. Have emailed Canyon but suspect they will say "remove it" to avoid any doubt/warranty issues...but does anyone have a half-informed view if its really a general risk or not??

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:44 am 
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That is BS! If they haven´t made a notice anywhere in the manual, they can´t make that rule apply for you.

The new Canyons come with FSA stems, which has a gap between the bolts also....


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:38 am 
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Mario Jr. wrote:
That is BS! If they haven´t made a notice anywhere in the manual, they can´t make that rule apply for you.

The new Canyons come with FSA stems, which has a gap between the bolts also....



I thought I rembered to that the new Canyons comes with FSA stems with a gap (F-99 stem). But looking at their web-site some of the bikes like all the Ultimate CF Pro bikes are pictured with FSA stems but in the specs it says it comes with Syntace F-119 stems. So it seems that Canyon maybe found out that steems with a gap don't work.

As I mentioned unfortunately my case is weak since in the guarantee details it says "The guarantee does not cover .... mounting of remounting of additional components". This basically means that as soon as you thighten a bolt your on your own.

If Canyon said, hey we can't be sure how thight you thightend your stem, but we will be nice and sell you a new one for half the price, I would be happy and say fair enough. But it makes me angry that they invent a rule that is so special that it should be mentioned at the least in the instructions and highlightend at the best. I have not heard about any other fork manufactuarer saying you can only use stems without a gap and maybe only Syntace stems.

I have been happy with Canyon so far, but this is anoying me.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:51 am 
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Yeah, I agree with you. This is a really lame excuse on their part. I mean, what kind of bike only allows one stem anyway !? Never heard that one before.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:19 am 
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After looking into the case again Canyon has decided to let the doubt rule in my favour and is replacing the fork for free. I really appreciate a company that is trusting it's customers and not trying to slip the easy way around.

For other Canyon users thinking about what stem to use here is what they wrote me:

"you are not allowed to use the DEDA stem anymore. this stem is simply not carbon fork designed. we do not limit our forks to the syntace stem, but to the "syntace design", which includes all stems with closed clamping area."

They also recommend to call them when exchanging components if there is any doubt.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:36 pm 
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I think Canyon is perhaps contradicting itself: Below is the email where they told me I could not use the Ritchey stem, which Im pretty sure would be classified as a "closed clamping area"

Quote:
The Ritchey stem fits not to our Race SLX fork. So the power of the torque can to disperse.
It`s important that a rebuilding with special parts in combination with carbon
parts are with a agreement with Canyon Bicycles.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

XXXX

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:03 pm 
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Location: Leiden, NETHERLANDS
What Canyon is saying is B-S!

DEDA developed the Arimo Stem for carbon fibre steerer and handle bar
At the steerer there is a large part where the aluminium is machined away similar to the DEDA Zero 100 (only the latter is not CNC-ed but forged).

To be sure I called DEDA in Italy. They just called me back. The DEDA zero 100 stem is especially designed to be used in combination with a carbon steerer.

So now I got the feeling Canyon is pushing the steerer strength in the clamping area to the limit. The design may be stiff but if it cannot withstand clamping forces or if you can not mount the stem you prefer it is worthless.

Canyon is not only selling the complete bikes but also the frames+forks. The latter are bought by people that create their own individual bike and won’t go with the choices Canyon made.

So Canyon should warn you for using different stems…… If the carbon fork-steerer is only compatible with a certain type or manufacturer.

Canyon never did warn their customers and a stem typically is an item that is changed quite often (due to fitting issues).

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My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:53 pm 
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if canyon sells the frame-fork-combo, they always include a Syntace stem...


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Indeed. As do a number of other manufacturers.

But NOWHERE do they say "you can only ever use this stem!" which is a common thing to do if, for example, you want to use bars of a different diameter.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:14 pm 
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@Ghastly
You are right there…

But they should warn you if you shouldn’t use another stem then they do provide.

Canyon doesn’t warn the buyer at all! So the buyer assumes he can use every stem he likes and is fitting the steerer diameter.

Not everybody likes the Synatce stem and a stem is often changed.

_________________
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:38 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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There are a couple frames that come with big WARNING! stickers or tags at a couple critical points on the frame.

I don't think anyone should have any part of a frame that requires a proprietary part at one of the most commonly replaced points of contact and doesn't have a big FAT warning...


Not that It'll help, but I'll email Canyon today...

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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:38 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:18 pm 
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@Pezzie I do 100% agree with you!

Inform me on the reply you get from Canyon please?

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My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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