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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:53 pm
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Location: Leiden, NETHERLANDS
Hey guys I got an answer from FFWD:

He has reason not to tell us who the rim manufacturer is.
But in short there will be more technical info on their website.

Since FFWD is using High quality DT hubs and also high quality Sapim and DT spokes I have the feeling that FFWD would not use inferior rim producer. Still I am interested in the manufacturers track record.

I myself intend to buy two new pairs of deep aero clincher wheels.
One for pure performance (I will end up buying EDGE 1.68 clincher I suppose).
One for daily use in the Dutch Flatlands (I have a pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbnone SL).

For replacement of the Mavic CC-sl clincher wheels the FFWD seem to be an option. Weight is almost the same.

I am waiting for answers on further question.


P.S.
The FFWD hubs are made by Kun Teng A.K.A. Quando.

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My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:12 pm
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Location: NL
Thanks for the info. I'm eager to know who the rim manufacturer is.. So FFWD is using DT and KT components, much like Reynolds..

Amadeus wrote:
For replacement of the Mavic CC-sl clincher wheels the FFWD seem to be an option. Weight is almost the same.
Just out of curiosity, if not for the weight and probably also not for aerodynamics, why would you prefer the FFWDs over your Mavics? Or are the Mavics just wearing out?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:22 pm
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Location: Wateringen, The Netherlands.
simon wrote:
they are for sure no corima rims.
i'm having the same idea for the next few cross wheels. external nipples, high rim for a good price at mavic reflex weight, holds up well as far as i know from heule and nijland, 24/28 hole available(20 is simply not enough for a cross front wheel).


They are indeed for sure no Corima.
I am quite sure about where they come from, have been also recentely offered those rims
here is a pic. of the rim: (It's 50mm)
Image
Made in China.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:10 pm 
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ffwd rear track disc wheel without cog, but with lockring and the 2 nuts to fix the disc into the frame:1205 grams. slightly lenticular shape, very nice finish. stickers could be taken away as there's no clearcoat over them.
20 mm rim 20 holes: 236 grams
20 mm rim 24 holes: 240 grams
have to put the 38 mm's on the scale tomorrow.
how can i resize pics with a mac?!at my old windows laptop, i opened pics in the paint program and resized them...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Tyrol/Austria
Any news on these wheels?

I´m intersted in the F4R tubulars with the 38mm rim.

What do you think of a possible similarity to the Ritchey and AMClassic 38mm Rim?

I´m a bit nervous buying them; there are obviously no experiences on their downhill qualities.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:45 pm 
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totally different design than ritchey. hard to explain without pics of both rims.
i have 4 sets of 38 mm rims now, can't wait to ride them, but i'm really busy with building up the racebike and all other stuff at the moment...
all of these rims held up cross racing well last season(maarten nijland, christian heule and others).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Location: Tyrol/Austria
simon wrote:
totally different design than ritchey. hard to explain without pics of both rims.
i have 4 sets of 38 mm rims now, can't wait to ride them, but i'm really busy with building up the racebike and all other stuff at the moment...
all of these rims held up cross racing well last season(maarten nijland, christian heule and others).


Does that mean that you have the 38mm rims from FFWD?? What´s your impression? Any idea of the origin? If you have them separately, whtas the weight?

Thanks a lot!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:47 pm 
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no can't tell about origin. there was a serial code and the letters ffwd laminated into the rim, and i've never seen the shape elsewhere until now.
i had one with 390 grams, the others were around 420. i wanted wheels in the weight range of dt 240s/reflex, but high rims(better mud performance), and reasonable price. i ended with these rims, bought 240 hubs and aerolite spokes here and let a good friend build everything up.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:39 am 
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Location: Leiden, NETHERLANDS
@Simon,

What is so special at the FFWD rim shape?

Tell me?

@FFWD
My thoughts in general:
If a wheel assembler (like FFWD) brings his product on the market and wants to sell his product. The assembler has to make clear to his customers why these wheels are good or better then the other wheels made by the competition in the market. Especially when the wheel sets are in a price range that is on par with some established wheel manufacturers, the new assembler/wheel brand should make an effort .

My thought about the hubs and spokes:
Using DT hubs and spokes and Sapim spokes speaks for a very good start. These are top of the line products.

But using the Kun Teng hubs for the less costly wheels with the FFWD hubs (these are rebaged Kun Teng hubs) is not special. This hub manufacturer is referred to quite often in a negative way. Kun Teng (own brand name in use is also Quando but they use more brand names) is generic stuff definitely not high end. These Kun Teng/Quando hubs also came in the news with several problems. On the other hand we also know that the same hub manufacturer can make very good hubs (these are used in several other brands wheel sets).

So we know that the hub manufacturer of the own brand FFWD hubs is a manufacturer that is able to produce good hubs, but most of these “good” quality hubs are not designed by Kun Teng but by the engineering team of wheel brand. The rebadged FFWD hubs are plain standard from Kun Teng.

So you have the choice; safe some money and buy Kun Teng hubs that are rebadged as FFWD and actually not of a very good reputation, or spend some more and get top of the bill with DT hubs.

The spokes FFWD uses are DT and Sapim and are of a very good choice. Top of the line!

My thoughts about the rims:
It is good to read that Simon writes the rims hold up quite well during a cyclo cross season.
But so do Ambrosio carbon rims, Zipp and many others.

What I want to know is;
-Why I should buy the FFWD rim?
-What is special or better about the FFWD rim.
-What are the advantages of the FFWD rim over other brands?

-What kind of research did FFWD do and which of the modifications that followed the research are for the better?

As an interested rider and possible customer I just want to know; how can I determine that I don’t spend my money on just another “China copy” of a some rim design that has not even been tested (as lot of these China and Taiwan copied stuff is really bad and even dangerous. On the other hand in the same countries next to the bad producers there do exist extremely good producers in carbon, the latter are the world leaders).

Further:
In my opinion it is FFWD that has to inform us. Not telling who the producer of the rims and not revealing any details of the rim (not even telling us about the strong points of it’s design) does not help and will certainly not make me buying these wheels (although I do understand FFWD because the Asian/China producers are not at all loyal to their customers…. ).

The way that FFWD is keeping the (Chinese) producer a secret tells me that these rims are available for any other assembler (and therefore not special at all). The latter also makes me understand why FFWD want’s to keep the rim manufacturer a secret.

Otherwise; in case the rim would be a special FFWD design and FFWD would have good contracts with the (Chinese) producer. FFWD would have been able to reveal who the producer is ….. But they seem to be afraid that others are going to buy the rims as well….. That is the only reason I can think off why they don’t reveal where the rims come from. So we probably may conclude that the carbon rims FFWD does use are a pretty generic product. In that case the wheels are overpriced.

So I invite FFWD to reveal some details and to convince us that the rims they do use are worth the price they ask for their wheel sets.

_________________
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Well, the same could be said about the Edge rims you so often mention as superior without even having seen them in real life. :? What´s the difference?

I´m not saying that the Edges aren´t very good. I don´t know. But do you? No.
At least pros has ridden these for a year in CX conditions. That speaks for the durability, I think.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:19 pm 
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Location: Leiden, NETHERLANDS
@Mario Jr,

What you say is not exactly the truth here.

I don’t say EDGE is a good product (although I do believe so) I am going to try them soon. And will keep you posted. I did say EDGE convinced me concerning their high quality standard. That is why I bought a pair of EDGE rims.

First:
You are right EDGE Composites is quite new on the market ...but only with the 1.38 and 1.68 tubular and clincher rims. The 2.0 series already have a track record. And they are in the production of forks for a while plus they deliver carbon tubing (for Parlee etc.). They have quite a track record as quality producer of bicycle parts.

FFWD has no track record except for their world travelling wheel builder (which is a real good one) and the hubs and spokes that are good.

Second:
EDGE composites inform us all in a very open manner about their rims and the new features they implemented (like the special braking surface and the way the clincher rims are build. Even about moulding and construction EDGE is open and gives insight.

FFWD does not give us any insight. Simply no insight at all.

That is a complete different attitude.

So my point is that for instance; from a technical view you can compare the EDGE rims with the other rims on the market. Like Zip that also communicates about their special features (in a very commercial way) or Corima that is also very open about the way they manufacture the rims and what their special features are and why they changed their design a bit for the better.

I am not at all saying that FFWD is no good. I am saying I want more insight in their product (especially the rim) like the other producers do give us. I do ask this so I can fairly compare their product.

It is just a well known fact that there is a lot of rubbish out there in China’s production. A big part of China rims are widely available and cheap rubbish. These are all sold without brand names. Everybody can put a name sticker on these.

So the assembler (FFWD is not a producer) should inform us about the unique selling points of his product and give the information we ask for. Otherwise we can’t compare.

Especially in the price range FFWD is aiming at more info is the way to go.

Again nothing bad is said about FFWD wheels. Jus more info is asked and they don’t provide it. In the contrary to other rim manufacturers and wheel builders that do provide information.

BTW: Comparing EDGE to FFWD drive is apples and pears. They are in a complete different price range also.

_________________
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:02 pm 
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Are these rims available separately? I would also love to use the 38mm to build up some cyclocross wheelsets.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:51 pm 
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Location: FINLAND
Finish quality is superb!! Weight for FFWD F2R set was 1062g. Pic quality does not make justice for the wheels, sorry about that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 83
Location: Somewhere flat, wet and cold..
I can confirm that!! Finish of the F2r is indeed great!! For a "cheapish"/affordable light wheelset they are great in components and finish (check out some pics on : www.ffwdwheels.com ).

I am lucky enough to try them out for a week, and i must say: WOW!
offcourse theay are light (claimed 999 grams for the DT190 version), but they are also solid an rigid. For me they are plenty stiff (the rear wheel feels rock-solid) and they spin like crazy (low rim weight).
I transforms my CR1 limited into a more agile, stabile and light climber then it already is (normally i use R-sys......yeah...i know... :roll: :lol:)

For me another nice thing is they come with skewers, brakepads and wheelbags. Not all manufacturers of expensive wheelsets do this.. :wink:

I have to say, they exceed my expectations......so i wanna keep them!!!

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"Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight? The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to carbonize the world!!!"


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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:07 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:53 pm
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Location: Leiden, NETHERLANDS
How is the braking surface on the rims? Is it equal? .....and is the rims wideness at the braking surface constant?

_________________
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.


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