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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:50 pm 
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Hey.


I'm going to build wheels, do I really have to buy a truing stand?
Of course it is useful but I can do it on the bike, just I have to put a true/new wheel on the bike, I set the brake pads close to the rim and I true/set the wheel I want to build directly on the bike refering to the pads.No?

Another question: what is the size of the nipples proposed on starbike.com? Is it not specified.

Thanks.Adrien.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:57 pm 
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A useful alternative to brake pads is zip-ties.

tie one zip tie to your left seat stay and one to the right one. Angle the end of the zip tie towards your rim and you have a flexible truing stand.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:47 pm 
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Ow, I don't really understand! Do you have a pict?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:24 pm 
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Use zip ties instead of your brakes as a guide to how true a wheel is.

I have to do this with mtb wheels with discs.


I think I'm using the correct term "seat stays" - the tubes from your seatpost clamp that run to your rear wheel. With one zip tie on each of your seat-stays point the zip tie (excess length) towards your brake surface of your wheel. With identical length ties you get a guide to true your wheels.

I dont have access to a computer paint package to draw a diagram sorry. If you can explaing which bits you dont understand, I could try to articulate myself better.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:43 pm 
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In my opinion you're going to want a truing stand, especially when building a wheel. You're taking into account it's side to side trueness, but you also must account for "up and down" trueness if this makes sense. This is hard to explain, but basically a wheel has "high" and "low" spots when it's spokes are either too tight or two loose. Truing stands allow you to basically put a straight edge underneath the rim to make sure that you have no "hops". Sorry if this is complicated but it's kind of hard to describe. Also, it seems like unless you got the zip tie lenght exactly the same you could screw up the dish of your wheels, which wouldn't matter too much with discs I guess. But, I believe that precision is optimal, and that you should use a truing stand.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:46 pm 
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Okay here's a link to park tools page which will help you understand. http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_truing.shtml Go down to "radial truing" for a better idea of what I'm talking about. Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Get the stand.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:47 pm 
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It is a pain to true a wheel on a bike, let alone build one. The inacuracy of not having the guage right in your face is crazy. I agree also with the note that there are 2 dimentions to a true rim. Up down and left right.

If you are just messing around then by all means do it on your bike...if you want to do it right, save your neck and get the stand.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:24 pm 
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Well it's ok, I'll order the ParkTool TS8.
Hmm... what do you think about the TM1 spoke tensio meter? I need one and this one seems cheap and good enough to start building wheels.
Does someone got it?

Thanks for the help.Adrien.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:22 pm 
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If you're interested PM me. I have a in new condition TS-7 for €50 if you like. It's just the stand no dishing tool.

http://www.parktool.com/tools/TS_7.shtml


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:38 pm 
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You are considering building a wheel without a truing stand...are you sure you have really learned enough about wheel building to be attemping to build a wheel?

And you need a tensiometer? Man, learn some more about building wheels, or you are going to be sorry when your wheel doesn't turn out right. One certaintly does not need a tensiometer.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:47 pm 
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Well, Ive read many things about whell building, I just have to practise now ;)
And if it doesn't turn well, I'll just have to unbuild then rebuild it.No?
And if I don't try, I'll never know how to do. That will be my learning phase ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:55 pm 
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Adrien wrote:
Well, Ive read many things about whell building, I just have to practise now ;)
And if it doesn't turn well, I'll just have to unbuild then rebuild it.No?
And if I don't try, I'll never know how to do. That will be my learning phase ;)


Having the right tools for the job is the key to success. Would you ride a century in tennis shoes? While you could I certainly would not if given the choice. Building a wheel without the right tools is just nuts. If you are spending the money to buy high end wheel parts don’t cheat yourself buy not buying and understanding how to use the tools to accomplish what you are trying to do.. You need a truing stand and a dishing tool at a minimum.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:13 am 
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HawkMt210 wrote:
And you need a tensiometer? Man, learn some more about building wheels, or you are going to be sorry when your wheel doesn't turn out right. One certaintly does not need a tensiometer.


Hawk, IMO this is bad advice, especially if using light gauge spokes and/or lightweight rims. Anyone can "assemble" a set of wheels. If you are reasonably mechanical you can even get them laterally and vertically true (for a while.) But if you want wheels that last and stay true then the spoke tension must be balanced. Spokes have broad areas of influence and they all overlap. You can incorrectly compensate for a spoke that is too loose by loosening its partner on the other side, or over tightening the next one on the same side. Your wheel will be true, but it won't last or you will always be re-truing. A tensiometer is a finishing tool for a finely crafted product.

The above is assuming lightweight rims/spoke and/or high miles. 450g+ rims and 14/15 gauge spokes are usually stout enough to cover up for a sloppy build.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:30 am 
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Adrien wrote:
Well, Ive read many things about whell building, I just have to practise now ;)
And if it doesn't turn well, I'll just have to unbuild then rebuild it.No?
And if I don't try, I'll never know how to do. That will be my learning phase ;)


Bravo, Adrian

Wheel building is my favorite part of working on bicycles. My first few attempts took a long time and were a little frustrating, but now (20 years and hundreds of wheels later) it's like therapy for me. I totally get lost in the processes and don't stop until I have a finished product that I'm satisfied with. It is the closest thing to art that I can do. :lol:

Definitely get a truing stand and a dishing tool. A tensiometer is important if you want lightweight wheels that will last. The park one works great. IMO it is better than the more expensive Wheelsmith version, but not as good as the (much more expensive) DT one.

One last piece of advice: your first build will go a lot smoother if you use a 400g+ rim and at least 15g spokes. Heavier stuff is much more forgiving. Good Luck! :D


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