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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 181
Location: London
Don't you get fed up with damaging them or rotten braking? I want to build a wonderful bike but it has to be tough enough to rack up the miles...so should I forget about carbon rims?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:43 pm 
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Hi Euro why you want to forget Carbon rims?Or should I ask "Why you want to have Carbon rims fot Trainig?"


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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:43 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:57 pm 
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I think braking is fine as long as your not going down mountains every day. There are quite a few that ride carbon rims even when out training, but to me it seems silly. With the cost of most carbon rims in the excess of $1000 why chance damage. If you ride on roads that are great then maybe its ok, but for me I ride quite a few roads that are country backroads and are not well paved. Some of the roads I ride on are even loose gravel (Ga. Pave). So using carbon rims all the time is taking a chance. I wouldn't give up on them though. Taking weight, and stiffness into consideration carbon rims are a must (especially carbon tubies).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 7:13 am
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Location: Finland
I ride training rides mostly on Lightweights. Basic lever ride feels with feel like constant 4 hour of s_x. Riding good (~1500g) clicher wheelset feel SO boring. Like Fiat after Ferrari...

They don't seem to wear. Only LW brake pad seem to wear bit too fast.Tufo's seem to last forever.

It was -1C in weekend but dry. LW's worked well as always. Just happy to have them. :D

I hope I could use still road bike in next weekend and test my new 115g/27.2X280mm ti-seat post. Testing carbon model seem to go for next summer.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:23 pm 
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Location: London
Hi, carbon fans. Actually I want the wheels for touring - on a light bike, probably an Ottrot ST, with no panniers, in the mountains. 100 miles a day or so, sometimes on bad country roads. I will have about 5 kilos of luggage but I will leave it off whenever I can - for example to do a mountain - leave the bags behind a bush at the bottom, climb the mountain, then put them back on. So I guess you could say that I'll be doing training rides but a very long way from home.

It would be fun to build a bike with Boras, or Reynolds KOMs, or Bontrager XXX, but from what you are saying it sounds like I'd regret it? Or do you think the Lightweights would do the job Samu?

Perhaps I should get Rolfs...they are very strong and they start at only 1220 grams although they're not carbon.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:27 pm 
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Location: London
By the way Samu, which Lightweights have you got?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:50 am 
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You train on lightweights?!?!?!?! Well I guess if you're not a racer and you just want to ride for the pleasure, but if you're a racer....you might as well commit suicide cuz thats basically what your asking for when you ride lightweights for training....self-imposed death. What if you broke them on a training ride? Would you forgive yourself? I wouldn't, I'd prob buy a pistol...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:55 am 
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Location: California
HawkMt210 wrote:
You train on lightweights?!?!?!?! Well I guess if you're not a racer and you just want to ride for the pleasure, but if you're a racer....you might as well commit suicide cuz thats basically what your asking for when you ride lightweights for training....self-imposed death. What if you broke them on a training ride? Would you forgive yourself? I wouldn't, I'd prob buy a pistol...


For some folks the cost is not a factor.

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 Post subject: Carbons every day
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 7:41 pm
Posts: 356
Location: New Mexico USA
Zoey makes a relevant point--for some people their bike is a priority that allows for what others think is excessive expenditure. I just got a set of 0G-05 brakes for the lowly sum of US$380 shipped. Really expensive, but these are truely wonderful brakes--from both a weightweenie viewpoint (both calipers together weigh less than my '04 Record front caliper!) and from a stopping viewpoint -- they actually work better than my Record brakes did! They have wonderful feel, are progressive and burn off speed quite well.
But, I digress. I ride Zipp 280 carbon rims every day to work, commuting. I don't ride on weekends (I have young children and associated commitments) and I don't race, so all I have is commuting. Not far, but about 1.5 hours a day. Lots of roads, potholes, stopping both expected and panic, lots of glass, goatheads and shared space (mailnly 5000lb pickup trucks in SouthWest USA.) I don't ride LWs but these wheels will still cost a lot to replace, but so far they have given superb service, and my commute is one of the most sublime experiences of my 25 year cycling life. I get to ride a 12lb bike every day, with more carbon fibre than an Enzo, about the same technology as an RC211V, and the maintenance costs less than my wife's SUV *each month*.
Ah, life is good...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:49 pm 
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Location: Finland
I have 2004' 16/20/Hugi 240S LW's=1140g.

I really can't undestand why I shouldn't train on them?

When I train:
-speed is always much lower than racing. So there is no comparinson to race. If you want to train racing, only way to do it is race!
-I'm either trying to recover or improve my base shape so these wheels won't hurt on these rides. Or I can ride faster then...
-On training, I can pick riding line,on race thats not possible always. And those younger racers have are bit suicidental riding style. I would like too keep LW wheels in one piece.
-Racing season have so much suffering so I would like to enjoy riding on training so much than possible. So I use nicer wheels....

I would buy Ksyriums for commuter (Elite or SL). And Axial Carbons for bad roads,25mm if possible. They have side wall protection and Pro Races don't.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:33 pm 
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Samu Ilonen wrote:
I have 2004' 16/20/Hugi 240S LW's=1140g.

I really can't undestand why I shouldn't train on them?

When I train:
-speed is always much lower than racing. So there is no comparinson to race. If you want to train racing, only way to do it is race!
-I'm either trying to recover or improve my base shape so these wheels won't hurt on these rides. Or I can ride faster then...
-On training, I can pick riding line,on race thats not possible always. And those younger racers have are bit suicidental riding style. I would like too keep LW wheels in one piece.
-Racing season have so much suffering so I would like to enjoy riding on training so much than possible. So I use nicer wheels....

I would buy Ksyriums for commuter (Elite or SL). And Axial Carbons for bad roads,25mm if possible. They have side wall protection and Pro Races don't.


I have always felt the same about using light stuff in training versus racing. I think you are better off training on light stuff than racing it just because you can't pick your line or see what's coming very well in a race/pack and in many races there is a pretty high probability of somebody falling on top of your light wheels too. Plus you aren't going to win if you don't finish the race so that's another argument against going ultra light in a race. I think the odds of damage are much lower in traingin and if something breaks in training and you can afford the monetary damage so what?

Whether light wheels will hold up in training depends mostly on your weight, the quality of the build, and the width of your tires. If you use an honest 23mm -25mm tire it really doesn't matter what rims you use on most roads. I have ridden carbon rims with 23mm tires on dirt roads with no problems. For gravel roads, especially with larger stones,>=25mm is better at protecting the rims. Or you can emulate Coppi and use a 27-28 on the front to snowplow the gravel out of the way and a 25 on the rear (and and integrated headset too).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4321
Location: Canada
The other important thing about putting miles in on your race kit is to confirm how it performs. Nothing would be more surprising than to lay-on your binders expecting the identical performance you get from your hard-anodized alloy rims with Record pads only to find that your carbon rims and cork don't quite stop the same...

I have put a lot of miles on my ADA's this season just to see how they perform in different conditions and with different pads (incidentally, the best pads by a long shot for both performance and longevity are cork, I guess that the manufacturers do know something about their product).

With respect to wear, I cannot see any on the braking surface. Also, the carbon wheels are surprisingly tough. I hit a BIG pothole on a 75kmph descent that was hidden by shadow that would have pretzled an alloy hoop, but the carbon wheel was not damaged in any way!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:13 pm 
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Location: London
Well, from what I read the Lightweights seem to be rideable even over cobbles, which suggests to me that they're a fair bit tougher than other makes. And they repair them and give you a discount if you smash them in a crash. And they're the stiffest wheels of all, which must help with durability? So I'm thinking I'll get some.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:13 pm 
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Location: Canada
Eurostar, if the build-quality of the Lightweights is as good as the ADA's (which I am sure they are) then you should have no problems. Some guys jump barriers with them in 'cross...


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:13 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:49 am
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Location: M√ľnchen
I ride my LWs occasionally in Training, either when the weather is nice, or when i deserve a goodie, or when i feel like riding Lightweights :)
I have never feared i might damage them by doing so. I rather think in a race the danger is much higher; if you ride in a apck and the guy in front of you does something stupid...
Only concern is that tubulars are too expensive in case you hit a piece of glass or so. Hate to throw one of those nice dugasts or veloflex's away.

Martin

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