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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:02 am 
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:02 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am 
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Location: York, UK
I've never seen ZG's in the flesh, but looking at those pictures of the Negative-Gs it looks like they are spaced out a long way in front of the front fork. Is there a reason for that? Surely that will just increase flex?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:15 am 
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Thanks for the preview Pez! Appreciate it the pre-release information... :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:30 am 
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Location: Europe
Thanks for the preview Pez, nice to see all the comparing pictures as well.

ZeroG, it seems there are some features in the new brakes that might work well in the 'old' design as well. Is there coming a new version of the standard brakes at some point?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:00 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
VeloScaper wrote:
he was talking about forum hijacking not the thread.

being able to ride a lot of high end bikes and equipment like groupies on a Stones tour is sure to make you a lot of friends here. especially those hoping to get their hands on your seconds. :lol:

I appreciate a lot of your posts, particularly those about helmets or bibs...the little things. Those that support marketing BS from say zipp for example...not so much.

The forum does have a problem with what marketing is allowed and what is not. Links from bocabearings no, links to your own merchant site in your sig is ok as long as it is not ebay. :noidea:

Threads that are really marketing and appear on every freakin cycling board i'm on such as a "joe blow" type requesting ideas for "real world" testing of a high end carbon wheel is ok even though it is a one sample set and obviously the manufacturer must have done some testing already is ok.

Yet ask a question about where to rent bikes in europe and you get a rather nasty post and a thread lock. Use to just get moved to the intro forum. Anyway, getting off topic now.




I personally agree with some of the thought that, at times, we get the lock on things maybe a bit quick.

I think we would see more folks here if we allowed a bit more open forum that could have threads that made for some community building. The bike rental thing is a good example, as this place has folks from lots of places... Personally I think it could be a more substantial resource for just such a thing.

As for me posting "BS", I've never said anything that I didn't firmly believe to be accurate. But hey, help me see your point and post a link to the threads you have in mind where I've lied about a product.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:55 pm 
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I didn't say you lied, I said you posted in support of marketing BS. Whether you believe it or not is not something I can argue about nor would I want to.

For examples, any of the threads about zipp and their dimples comes to mind...last one was about their tires if memory serves. I don't think we need to rehash them here as that would be off topic and I don't think anyone's opinion would change. Plus I'll probably get another PM from Cyco asking me to leave the forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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VeloScaper wrote:
I didn't say you lied, I said you posted in support of marketing BS. Whether you believe it or not is not something I can argue about nor would I want to.

For examples, any of the threads about zipp and their dimples comes to mind...last one was about their tires if memory serves. I don't think we need to rehash them here as that would be off topic and I don't think anyone's opinion would change. Plus I'll probably get another PM from Cyco asking me to leave the forum.


Im not asking if any manufacturer has marketing BS...

I'm asking what specifically I have said that directly supports or states BS.


You took the time to make the statement and you chose the thread. I would simply ask that you qualify your words.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:51 pm 
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I would say the Brittney Spears is more festively plump then beefy.

(Then again I prefer to remember the original Brittney, rather then the redneck stripper version.)

Back to topic..

Ok, when is Tour Mag going to do a brake test? I want to see some comparative numbers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:01 pm 
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:goodpost:

True, it would be nice to see some numbers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:37 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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I would love to see a test too, but one that featured 3 measures, flex on clamping force, flex front to back and twist flex... The last crank test I saw was poo, as it laid cranks on their side and tested the suitability as a diving board rather than loading a pedal axel which is quite a bit of a twist test (and more applicable).

Damn it I want a budget for some cool stuff!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:46 pm 
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PezTech wrote:
VeloScaper wrote:
I didn't say you lied, I said you posted in support of marketing BS. Whether you believe it or not is not something I can argue about nor would I want to.

For examples, any of the threads about zipp and their dimples comes to mind...last one was about their tires if memory serves. I don't think we need to rehash them here as that would be off topic and I don't think anyone's opinion would change. Plus I'll probably get another PM from Cyco asking me to leave the forum.


Im not asking if any manufacturer has marketing BS...

I'm asking what specifically I have said that directly supports or states BS.


You took the time to make the statement and you chose the thread. I would simply ask that you qualify your words.



In the past I worked for a company in the industry that supplied pezcyclingnews.com with product for review. That product was supplied FREE of charge every time. It was a business / advertising expense. Most of the product was mailed directly to Charles Manantan and not returned. The company at that time also advertised with pez. It was known the company would receive a favorable review by supplying free goods to the reviewers. I can also state that product supplied to pez was cherry picked - pez received the best of the best.

Some time ago there was an incident involving a product failure that affected Charles directly - he ended up in a Phoenix neighborhood rock garden because of it. I mention this because I have read several statements made by him where he has claimed to have experienced no problems with this company's products. Charles may be in denial about this (why?) but it is a fact. He has also made reference to a particular product as being great, reliable, etc, but I can tell you the regular customer versions have been returned in droves because of reliability / wear issues damaging the product. Charles is likely to call the company's owners and inform them of this thread :roll:

I have nothing bad to say about the companies I have been involved with. The bicycle industry is very small and it doesn't pay to burn bridges. However, I wanted to point out that reviews should be taken with caution. Particularly those on pezcyclingnews. Many of my industry colleagues regard pez as a good source for photos of attractive women and biased reviews based on free product - nothing more. Sorry for the anonymous nature of this email. It may not seem credible so take it as you will. I value my job in the industry.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:50 pm 
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The mystery rescue!

I find this incredibly reliable!

a well documented response with great specifics... I'm of course scared for life from flying through a rock garden after an exploding _______ caused my doom... And I just got off the phone with every company we've ever reviewed a product with to make sure they all know their product explodes!

And of course only Pez gets "FREE" product to test. All other publications buy their product and or just use white background manufacturers photo's and never actually touch it... But at Pez, we both test ride it, visit the factories when we can and try and use as much of the same gear as possible to keep tests more about the part on review... Oh the shame.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:48 am 
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Pez, I wasn't aware I needed a rescue. I have no idea who insider is, nor do I have anything to do with his/her post if that is what you are implying.

PezTech wrote:
Im not asking if any manufacturer has marketing BS...

I'm asking what specifically I have said that directly supports or states BS.

You took the time to make the statement and you chose the thread. I would simply ask that you qualify your words.


I wasn't stating if any manufacturers have marketing BS...we all know most of them do.

My statement was more in regards to how you at times will regurgitate some marketing spiel then say you don't know if it's true but until you see hard data otherwise (other than from Cess), you believe it. So while not completely endorsing the BS, it kinda does in a sly way. This is what I got from a very quick reading of the zipp dimple threads.

This happens in some reviews too. I guess if you were clear about what the claims are from the manufacturer are, rather than blending the marketing with the review it wouldn't be so bad.

As far as a direct support the closest I could find given my time is the zipp dimple tires thread where you don't want to listen to doubters anymore and want to listen to people who have gone out and ridden the tires. Even though it is impossible for a rider to measure the 1-2 watts benefit claim given changes in temperature, wind and a riders legs. A wind-tunnel would be needed.

link to zipp tire thread.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28875&highlight=zipp+dimples

zip dimple general thread.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21648&highlight=zipp+dimples

Unfortunately now it seems as though I am on some personal attack on you given all these posts. I am not. Most of my original post in this thread was not directed at you but in general. The part that was directed at you was mostly in support.

I responded to this thread because J-Nice's post had been mis-characterized unfairly. BTW, something you do frequently to avoid the subject. J-Nice had a valid point, though links from other sites for reviews or stories like from CN have always been allowed since I've been around here so I'm ok with this thread. But I responded in support and to enlarge his point on how marketing is allowed on the forum not just this ZG thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:04 am 
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PezTech wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
a well documented response with great specifics... I'm of course scared for life from flying through a rock garden after an exploding _______ caused my doom... And I just got off the phone with every company we've ever reviewed a product with to make sure they all know their product explodes!

And of course only Pez gets "FREE" product to test. All other publications buy their product and or just use white background manufacturers photo's and never actually touch it... But at Pez, we both test ride it, visit the factories when we can and try and use as much of the same gear as possible to keep tests more about the part on review... Oh the shame.


The "exploding" item in question was a failed freewheel mechanism on a high end wheelset. Charles can deny all he wants. He ended up in a rock garden because of it.

Pez is not the only site / magazine given free product to test. Another known fact. Your reviews are favorable towards those who supply free product and those who advertise. That is the point.

Pez should stick to copying and pasting bicycle race reports. Hi Richard!


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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:04 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:18 am 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
Velo,

Sure those are threads... But you still havent found anything directly quoting me saying something that's untrue or BS.

It's easy to make generalizations and take shots in the cyber world. When someone does that, I just ask for specifics, not to simply tear someone down, boost my own ego or be a petty instigator but because I want to make sure I don't mislead anyone.

Not much in this really...




Insider, I have never had a freehub failure cause a wreck. I've had forks snap, stems break, QR's go south, wheels buckle a break arm snap (not a zero G...), crank arms break. None of them sent me into a rock garden... I get loads of proto stuff...


But keep bringing "the pain". Good stuff. You've even seemed to read the personal paragraphs of folks at Pez! You must be an insider alright!

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