Olympic champion Hamilton: doping

[gerry]

Tyler couldn't have doped by doing a homologus blood transfusion. Why? He's not that sloppy. Neither are any of the top cyclists in the world.

The top teams don't mess around. They have the best doctors, the best scientists....its the little guys who don't have the best of everything that get caught. Division 1 teams are 10 years ahead of the UCI. You could make an argument that testing is regressive in nature - it allows the big guys to get ahead but the little guys pay.

and david millar and other world champions this year? i don't think the teams are doing systematic programs since the festina thing. it's too risking for pr. what the athlete does on their own time is probably left to them. they probably just pressure the athletes so they get the same result.

[SuperP]

and david millar and other world champions this year? i don't think the teams are doing systematic programs since the festina thing. it's too risking for pr. what the athlete does on their own time is probably left to them. they probably just pressure the athletes so they get the same result.

So it sounds like you are saying eveyone dopes, and now with the festina thing the world champions have been reduced to doing a "dope in the back alley" kinda deal like the rest of the non-world champions do. While I agree with you that there probably is more widespread doping than confessed (particularly on this board), there seems to be too much testing ambiguity and error-prone results to say the chances of false positives are as low as the IOC/UCI believes them to be. Maybe I missed them but has there been any figures released by the IOC on the new testing false positive rates? If you're talking about gold medals here, I'm sure they'd want it pretty small, like less than 1/2% or something and err on the side of more false negatives than false positives.

One conspiracy thing to consider (which will delight gerry) is that maybe LA knew about the new IOC testing and that'd he'd fail so thus dropped out of the Olympics....hmmmm.

[gerry]

found more about the test here.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2004/blood_doping

[autocutter]

No systematic programs? Well maybe not, maybe so, but there does appear to be a lot of riders going "sick" right at the moment and a few "retirements" as well-not that I ascribe to conspiracies it must the Worlds coming up, you think?

[userdeleted]

David Millar...perfect example. Did he test positive? Ever? No. He was only cuahgt from a long trail of connectors involving his team. He wasn't sloppy, other than keeping two EPO vials at his house, which sure wasnt a doctors' or scientists' fault. OK so he was sloppy, but not in testing.

[cadence90]

It seems the people here most passionately defending those who have tested positive (and implying that these riders are not "enhancing") are also those saying the Div.1 teams have the best of everything; years ahead of UCI; too smart; never actually tested positive; tests are designed by quacks; etc. etc. I don't quite get it.

"It was only Perrier water, man...."
-Leon Spinks, 1988, after a first round TKO by Tony Morrison, when the contents of his water bottle was questioned.[/i]
Uh-huh....

[userdeleted]

Passionately defending? How in the hell am I passionately defending Millar or Hamilton? Please, inform me, i'd like to hear this one.

It seems to me that the people who 'dont quite get it' are weekend recreational riders who have never seen the top echelon of the sport, yet feel that they have the knowledge to comment on something they have never even seen, since they are supreme all-knowing beings.

[Adri]

http://www.tylerhamilton.com/
Touching report from Haven Hamilton.

[Petacchi]

Hey guys,

I havent posted here in ages but I just read through the entire thread and no one once brought into question Hamiltons TTing skills! He won an Olympic Gold Medal, granted the feild wasnt over whelmingly strong, but honestly he was one of the worst forms I have ever seen. Plus he is coming off a disapointing season and he is near the end of his career. I think these are all valid points to make something happen for him but I would greatly greatly hope that in no way shape form he would do something like this. It was a very appalling an idea that someone as well known and as good as Tyler would do something like this.

Cheers

[520 Dan]

I didn't see the olympic TT, and no offense to you, but Tyler Hamilton is often refered to as a TT specialist (seems wierd to me too, but I've heard it numerous times) so calling his prowess at a TTer into question creates a kinda moot point.

[andrew]

I completely agree.

The UCI just introduced an EPO test despite the fact that EPO has been around since the 1980s!

My theory, and it may be wrong, but it's the best theory I can come up with, is that the UCI and WADA know that they are powerless to stop doping because the lack truly up-to-date and accurate tests for the latest drugs. Hence, they use dubious tests that result in false-positives to scare professionals from doping, so they have to find a superstar cyclist to make into a scapegoat to prevent the average domestique from doping.

But as Hawk said, chances are doping is wide-spread, from the superstars to the lowly domestiques, but the superstars sure as hell aren't blood doping or using EPO.

-Andrew

Tyler couldn't have doped by doing a homologus blood transfusion. Why? He's not that sloppy. Neither are any of the top cyclists in the world.

The top teams don't mess around. They have the best doctors, the best scientists....its the little guys who don't have the best of everything that get caught. Division 1 teams are 10 years ahead of the UCI. You could make an argument that testing is regressive in nature - it allows the big guys to get ahead but the little guys pay.

I'm not saying Tyler or any of the other top cyclists dope (well I sorta am but not really). And I love Tyler. But for him to get caught is just too sloppy for a top team like Phonak. I think something's fishy on the side of the testers.

[Racing Aardvark]

But as Hawk said, chances are doping is wide-spread, from the superstars to the lowly domestiques, but the superstars sure as hell aren't blood doping or using EPO.

Are you joking? How about the 2003 World MTB champion? I would think he counts as a superstar.

The only way you will nail anyone for using EPO is out of competition tests. Anyone can use it as long as they won't get tested for the 3 days it takes to clear out of your system.

[userdeleted]

FLAME ME: 'world class' mountain bikers are nothing compared to world class road racers

OH MAN DID I JUST OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS

[andrew]

Once again, I completely agree with Hawk.

It is simply a matter of economics.

There is no money in mountain bike racing.

There are millions of dollars involved in sponsored professional road racing.

-Andrew

FLAME ME: 'world class' mountain bikers are nothing compared to world class road racers

OH MAN DID I JUST OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS

[gerry]

Once again, I completely agree with Hawk.

It is simply a matter of economics.

There is no money in mountain bike racing.

There are millions of dollars involved in sponsored professional road racing.

-Andrew

what are the exact dollar ranges where someone will use doping? we had guys in university that where using it and i don't think they were really bringing in the doe ray me.