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 Post subject: Mavic Tubeless rims???
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:49 am 
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On the tour coverage by OLN today they did a little highlight on Mavic's new tubeless rims and tires ridden by one of the team (I don't remember which one). Has anyone heard anything about these?

They didn't say who the tire manufacture was, but said the weight of the tires were 240g and could hold 120psi of pressure.

I ride tubeless on my MTB (with Stan's sealant) and swear by them. A good tubeless road set-up could mean the end of flats (I bet Phonak wishes they were in that boat).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:19 am 
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Michelin were the tires, the wheels looked like ksyriums. Wondering if my ksyriums will be compatible.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:37 am 
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Superlite wrote:
Michelin were the tires, the wheels looked like ksyriums. Wondering if my ksyriums will be compatible.


no they won't be - tubeless rims require different construction from your regular clinchers

http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/tech/a ... 450.0.html

and if velonews is correct - those were Hutchinson tires...

Altho I don't see the point for the average joe - the road tubeless tires aren't easier to install than road tubulars. They don't provide higher pressure than road tubulars and you can't repair them on the road any easier than clinchers. In fact - the current technology means they're even more annoying than tubulars to install on the road...

so my question is - what's the point for average consumers? It makes sense for pro racers because they can get entire wheels changed in seconds - it might be safer as the tires won't roll off like tubulars... but as far as advantages to replace current clinchers I don't see any.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:59 am 
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Quote:
and if velonews is correct - those were Hutchinson tires...


The shimano tubeless wheels are using Hutchinson tires, Mavic uses the Michelin tubeless

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:48 am 
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aren't the tufo clincher/tubular almost the same thing??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:23 am 
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I wonder if any of the teams are using a sealant in the tires? If you added something like the Stans sealant you would only add one once (considering you only add 2-3 onces for a MTB tire) and would be virtually free of flats.

The velonews article was wrong about one thing and that's how a flat occures on a tubeless. They indicated it would be a slow leak. That would be true if you had a thorn or something small like that, however if you hit a sharp rock wrong you still can blow out a tire. I had that happen on my MTB tires....hit a sharp rock wrong and bang!! I blew a whole in the tire the size of a silver dollar!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:40 pm 
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The velonews article says that the tires can't come off when you flat. Is this just because the bead is so tight?? If so, that sounds like a huge pain to mount/change tires (which the article acknowledges.) I'm pretty confident that tubular glue will hold my tires on until I can stop, and tubulars aren't THAT hard to install. Bottom line, sounds like a way to convince people to buy a new product.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:28 pm 
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I think there are a couple of misconceptions here regarding tubeless. It's not as complicated or bothersome as some suggest. Basically it's a regular clincher tire system that doesn't require an inner tube. The rim will have a slightly different "clinch" and the tire a different bead. At the same time the system will also be fully compatible with regular clinchers.

If you get a puncture you can do the following:
1) slip in a regular inner tube
2) patch the inside of the tubeless clincher
3) use liquid sealant
4) put a drop of super glue in puncture hole from the outside. You won't even have to take off the tire.

(I'm not sure about latter two due to the higher pressure. It does work on MTB tires.)

When they're released they should be as easy to mount as a regular clincher. Unlike with sew-ups you won't have to carry a whole spare tire with you and a sewing kit. Higher pressures than 120psi are completely unessary. I ride 100-105 and sometimes even 95 front with Pro Race. Going higher will only make the ride harsher. You can't compare it with sew-up pressurs due to the different design.

The only down side I can think of is weight. After several years of development the MTB versions still are heavier compared to a regular inner tube + tire. I'm skeptical that they'll be able to bring the weight down of the road version to the 240g that was mentioned. However, if they can it's going to be a winning system for sure - as easy to use as a clincher - no bulky spares to take with you - no messing with glue or tape - smoother ride - better reliability - less rolling resistance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:49 pm 
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I'm not sure if MTB tubeless can be generalized to road because apparently they're quite different.... the article at velonews says that the mavic and shimano rims currently require professional seating and there's no way they're going to be avaliable for road side repairs...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:28 pm 
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When the system is ready for release it should be more user friendly. Otherwise, there's no point to it. The article indicated as much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:22 am 
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Location: Santa Monica, CA
Superlite wrote:
Quote:
and if velonews is correct - those were Hutchinson tires...


The shimano tubeless wheels are using Hutchinson tires, Mavic uses the Michelin tubeless


The Mavic sponsored teams testing tubeless have Hutchinson as their tire sponsor, ie: Quick-Step.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:10 pm 
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Location: New York City
divve wrote:
I think there are a couple of misconceptions here regarding tubeless. It's not as complicated or bothersome as some suggest. Basically it's a regular clincher tire system that doesn't require an inner tube. The rim will have a slightly different "clinch" and the tire a different bead. At the same time the system will also be fully compatible with regular clinchers.

If you get a puncture you can do the following:
1) slip in a regular inner tube
2) patch the inside of the tubeless clincher
3) use liquid sealant
4) put a drop of super glue in puncture hole from the outside. You won't even have to take off the tire.

(I'm not sure about latter two due to the higher pressure. It does work on MTB tires.)

When they're released they should be as easy to mount as a regular clincher. Unlike with sew-ups you won't have to carry a whole spare tire with you and a sewing kit. Higher pressures than 120psi are completely unessary. I ride 100-105 and sometimes even 95 front with Pro Race. Going higher will only make the ride harsher. You can't compare it with sew-up pressurs due to the different design.

The only down side I can think of is weight. After several years of development the MTB versions still are heavier compared to a regular inner tube + tire. I'm skeptical that they'll be able to bring the weight down of the road version to the 240g that was mentioned. However, if they can it's going to be a winning system for sure - as easy to use as a clincher - no bulky spares to take with you - no messing with glue or tape - smoother ride - better reliability - less rolling resistance.


tufo tubular/clincher Jet Elite is 225 grams. so its ligher than the version mentioned above. i think your wrong about it being unnecessary* to ride ride with more than 120psi. when my tufo's fall below 120psi they feel too soft in a sprint or when climbing hard. now i try to keep them at 140 - 150 psi. and even in nyc with all the pot holes they still feel pretty nice. i think/guess it is the design of the tub/clincher tire.

i havent had a chance to use the sealant in the tufo, cause i have yet to flat (i hope i have not talked to soon :roll: ) but i hear that it works very good to sealing the tires up nicely, some even report no loss of pressure when used as preventive measure. i think the tires are very puncture resistant. i see alot of nicks and cuts on the tire, but none of them go all the way thru

i think if you want a low weight good functioning clincher with tubular properties, this is the way to go.


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