What wheels do wheelbuilders ride?

[Tristan]

ergott: Interesting to see that most of your wheels are tubulars.

Do you not have young punks who drive around thinking it is cool to smash beer bottles on the road in your part of the world?

[fdegrove]

looks like a record cassette...

on the wheels:
how deep are those rims? what do you think about using those for cross?
also, how much do they cost? what (bike shop) suplier carries them?
thanks!

the wheels look awesome! I have some H1 hubs that I really like.

The last time I bought a Record 12-25 & 13-26 and Centaur 12-25, none had the blue spacer. Only Veloce had that I thought, unless the blue one comes only with the Record & Veloce 12-23. My 12-23 Veloce has the blue spacer, but it's not on an "uber-light" wheel!


EDIT: after looking again, it seems like it is a Record because it has the metal small spacers instead of the Veloce's plastic ones. But it's hard to tell on this monitor if the cogs are Ti.

Interestingly, I've found that the 4 small plastic spacers are lighter than the 4 small metal ones.

Hi,

It definitely is a Centaur cassette, probably a 12-25. The four largest cogs are pinned together just as the Chorus and Record, than you'll have the blue aluminum spacer typical of the Centaur (I've seen it on 10S Veloce too), followed by 4 black resin spacers.
These are indeed lighter than the metal ones but are more easuly compressed which makes the assy a tad less stif than the bigger brethren's.
No doubt the Boonen among us would feel the difference...
But yeah, if you want to save a couple of grams on that full Ti Record 11-21 then that's the place to be.

Sorry for the OT guys.

Ciao,

[thewalrus]

Have any of you guys built wheels with the carbon Gigantex rims? I am wondering how they compare in a similar rim depth / profile to the 350-360 gram Nimble Flies posted by ergott.

[Skillgannon]

If its the 50mm Gigantex's, I'd be worried about the stiffness (but Tristan has built with them), as Gravity-Zero has wheels with the gigantex rim for the 50mm and theirrim (or someone elses anyway) for the 38mm, and on their in house testing, even though you'd expect the deeper rim to be stiffer,they supposedly found the 38mm far stiffer.

[ergott]

looks like a record cassette...

on the wheels:
how deep are those rims? what do you think about using those for cross?
also, how much do they cost? what (bike shop) suplier carries them?
thanks!

the wheels look awesome! I have some H1 hubs that I really like.

The last time I bought a Record 12-25 & 13-26 and Centaur 12-25, none had the blue spacer. Only Veloce had that I thought, unless the blue one comes only with the Record & Veloce 12-23. My 12-23 Veloce has the blue spacer, but it's not on an "uber-light" wheel!


EDIT: after looking again, it seems like it is a Record because it has the metal small spacers instead of the Veloce's plastic ones. But it's hard to tell on this monitor if the cogs are Ti.

Interestingly, I've found that the 4 small plastic spacers are lighter than the 4 small metal ones.

Hi,

It definitely is a Centaur cassette, probably a 12-25. The four largest cogs are pinned together just as the Chorus and Record, than you'll have the blue aluminum spacer typical of the Centaur (I've seen it on 10S Veloce too), followed by 4 black resin spacers.
These are indeed lighter than the metal ones but are more easuly compressed which makes the assy a tad less stif than the bigger brethren's.
No doubt the Boonen among us would feel the difference...
But yeah, if you want to save a couple of grams on that full Ti Record 11-21 then that's the place to be.

Sorry for the OT guys.

Ciao,

Only the top two are pinned together. The rest are as described above. I'll have you know that you all embarrassed me into putting the Record on. Man you guys are rough I did save 54g!

-Eric

[mike]

the jerk loves a nice hand built wheelset; he's not the best wheelbuilder but once one gets it in terms of wheelbuilding at a certain point you just get faster at it....but the jerk digresses... the jerk also is a big believer in pre-built wheels. having hubs, rims and spokes designed together as a package makes sense; and can some of the time build a stronger, lighter and better wheelset than what can be achieved using availble parts. the resulting dish of 10speed wheels is one such factor that pre-builts over-come that only the best handbuilts can hope to cope with

he rides in no particular:

a set of paris roubaix 32 hole rims laced 3x to dura-ace 7700 hubs. these things have bontrager stickers on the rim and were team issue us postal wheels for paris roubaix....the jerk got'em and they're great.

a set of bontrager race x lite tubulars that have nothing to do with what is commercially availble except that they look enough like the retail product at a distance. the difference is they use hubs with big fat flanges, have much better bearings and the rim is much wider. the sidewalls are also not machined. this is another us postal team wheelset that the jerk got a hold of and is the same wheel postal used untill the advent of the aeolous for the majority of the events....belgian mechanics are weird- they hate machined sidewalls....the jerk guesses that you never know when its going to get sloppy and crappy out.

a set of cosmic carbones- everyone here has read the jerk's review on these wheels- they are as close to perfect as any all-aropund wheel can be...fast, stiff, confident and corners and solid feeling. these are the wheels that most often get put on the jerk's bikes when he feels like going for a good hard ride.

adas- the best. cees is a genius and a set of ada wheels, while quirky and tough to set up to begin with; have a ride that can only be described as sublime.....they spin up quick yet above 35km/h feel like a nice heavy aero wheel that maintains its speed.....they're solid over the bumps and they corner better than anything. the jerk has said it befor and he'll say it again- you'd be better off with these wheels on a sora equipped aluminum bike than you'd be on a carbon wunder bike with a set of regular d/a record open pro wheels.

pmp 36hole tied and soldered to ambrosio nemesis rims.....big fat dugasts grace these things and they are the wheels to use for pave, dirt roads and anytime the jerk feels like beating the snot out of s bike and himself.

so those are the jerk's current wheels.

jerk

Jerk, do you think ADA wheels ride better than LWs? please pm me if you don't want to share your opinion with others.

[ergott]

the resulting dish of 10speed wheels is one such factor that pre-builts over-come that only the best handbuilts can hope to cope with


jerk

There are ways around that. This hub is not fully stock. I respaced it to 132.5mm and the resulting right flange spacing is 17.5mm (center to center). This is not something you will find on any prebuilt (campy compatable) that doesn't have an offset rear (Hyperon).

There is absolutely no problem with the spacing fitting the dropout. I even contacted Serotta and they concur.

By the way, the rear hub geometry of most hubs has been the same since 8speed. That is why hubs can still use them. This myth that 10speeds suddenly made for bad wheels is just that, a myth.

Another reason that good handbuilts are in the same league (an many times, better) is that rims available can accept higher tensions now as well. A wheel built with rims like Velocity and IRD (talking aluminium) can accept higher drive side tension without premature failure. This higher tensions lessens the chance of the non drive spokes going slack. If you have tension on all the spokes a wider flange spacing is always stiffer.

I would gladly submit wheels that I have put together against similar prebuilts in any testing you want. Prebuilts are not doing anything special. They are not using any magic parts. The hubs do not have any magic geometry. Most replacement rims for prebuilts are overpriced and the spokes are identical to the ones available to the public.

The only prebuilt lineup that I like (up and down) are Campagnolo's. They did their homework and sourced out the the right people (Corima for the rims) for the components. That said they aren't doing anything that can't be matched for less. The only rim that builders can't duplicate is the rear Hyperon (offset). Other than that I can't get just about anybody's rims and tune the wheels lighter or stronger by playing with the spoke counts, hub choice or spoke choice.

I won't even begin to compare to LW and ADA because they are using completely different methods and if you have the money then I don't blame you. However, name one prebuilt that can compare to 7700/PRs.

-Eric

[ergott]

ergott: Interesting to see that most of your wheels are tubulars.

Do you not have young punks who drive around thinking it is cool to smash beer bottles on the road in your part of the world?

I must thank my local society as glass isn't that big of a problem. I can't zone out and not pay any attention, but my normal training route is pretty clean.

I would way the 95% of my riding is on tubs. I ride the clinchers more for something different. I do have another set of clinchers coming that will push the boundaries of my normal builds.

Tune Mig 45/Mag 190 (very tuned up)
AC 420 rims
Pillar ti spokes

They should break under 1300g!

-Eric

[Boonen]

The only rim that builders can't duplicate is the rear Hyperon (offset).

The IRD Cadence vsr is an offset rim for the rear wheel that you could build with yourself that has both respectable weight and price.

My favorite handbuild wheels I made for myself are with DT hubs, sapim race spokes and blue nipples and mavic cxp30 rims build 32h 3x rear with the nds twisted and 28 1x front.
My favorite for racing is a fir sc120 or ambrosio crono F20 rim laced to 32h DT hubs with soldered spokes. Reasonably light and stiff tub wheels that you can afford to damage in a race when you get off the road or on bad pavement that brake well in every situation, rain or shine. (they have been good for cx riding for me as well)

[bikemesenger]

32h 3x rear with the nds twisted and 28 1x front.

Now that is interesting pair of wheels

[ergott]

The only rim that builders can't duplicate is the rear Hyperon (offset).

The IRD Cadence vsr is an offset rim for the rear wheel that you could build with yourself that has both respectable weight and price.

True. I meant offset rear carbon rim. I love the IRD, Alex, and Velocity offset rear rims. They mate well with wider flanged hubs like King, Tune, WI, and Campagnolo.

-Eric

[Boonen]

Now that is interesting pair of wheels

Thanks
I like building wheels and for myself I usually end up with something a bit more unusual then the standard stuff. I bet you have seen them before though They were featured by Adrien in this article together with some of your sweet crows foot wheels on tune hubs
The polished DA crows foot and the weird fixed 3xleading 3xtrailing on the bottom are some of my other 'weird' builds

True. I meant offset rear carbon rim. I love the IRD, Alex, and Velocity offset rear rims. They mate well with wider flanged hubs like King, Tune, WI, and Campagnolo.

ah, ok Misunderstood you then. To bad all of these rims are really hard to get over here in Europe
I have seen somebody getting the IRD offset here for a proton wheel though but sadly none of these have distributors here

[Auk]

Fir Isidis 32H; Front is radial, Rear is radial NDS, 2x DS withthe DS tied ans soldered. Dura Ace hubs. One of the first sets that I built 8 years ago. Still one of my favorite pairs to take out.

Campagnolo Omega V tubulars Front 24H, rear 28H 2X black bladed spokes on both front and rear wheels. Red Ritchey WCS hubs with some tricks.

Capagnolo Omega V tubular 32H frt/rr Ultegra hubs 3X and tied/soldered. My "through heaven and hell wheelset".

Velocity Deep V black, clincher non-machined. 32H Ritchey WCS hubs, black. DT butted and black and 2X all the way around with tie/solder, silver alloy nips. Few more black. Few more heavy.

Velocity Deep V Elite tubular, black, non-machined. 32H radial front, radial NDS rear with 2X DS. Black spokes, silver nips, silver hubs.

[bikemesenger]

together with some of your sweet crows foot wheels on tune hubs
The polished DA crows foot and the weird fixed 3xleading 3xtrailing on the bottom are some of my other 'weird' builds

I wished more people liked them so I could do more of them. Another one of my favorite patterns for the rear is a 24h triplet, 3x drive side and 1x non drive. Look at the angle of the drive side spokes on the picture, they are so close to perfect.

[Boonen]

Look at the angle of the drive side spokes on the picture, they are so close to perfect.

Those sure do look nice I don't think I have seen that before but wouldn't mind giving it a try some day
What did you make for a matching front?
You don't get many customers for wheels like this? I bet most are looking for a 32h 3x wheelset or maybe some less holes and radial. I can see when building so many wheels why this is a welcome change even if you have to think a bit more about what you are doing
I like the special things and if thought out correct they don't have to be less durable or stiff then the same spoked equivalent.

Did you btw ever enter any problems with the crows foot lacing on the rear drive side? On my wheels the crossing of the spokes is very close to the cassette, had to really stress the spokes to get them to sit right. Maybe you do the crossing spokes heads out and the radial one head in?