There was some talk in an earlier thread about Mavic Ksyrium vs. Rolf Vigor:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=669&start=0

How about Rolf Vigor vs. American Classic 420? Are the rims really identical, i.e. does Rolf really get rims from American Classic that are just as light as in the 420s? How does the ride compare? I've got a pair of the old Rolf Vector Pros. Are the new Vigors or 420s an improvement?

I'm not impressed with the AC micro hubs.
What are the Rolf heubs like?

How do they compare on price?

The Rolf wheels are using 420 rims, which are beefed up a little for the pair spoking application. I have not seen the latest iteration of Rolf's wheels in person, but I believe Rolf is back to using AC hubs on his wheels, with a different hub body on the rear of course.

same hubs and rims? How are they different?

They may look similar but the Rolf Prima Vigor rims are listed at 460 grams in weight.

The Rolf freehub utilizes a 3 pawl system where the American Classic uses 6.

I still have not had any problems with mine. AC recommends Finish Line grease. I find this grease is far too light and use Phil Wood exclusively.

I find this very hard to believe. I don't have any information to the contrary, but being familiar with Rolf's stuff and all their proprietary patents, I doubt they'd use any AC stuff at all. especially given all the problems that AC has had with their wheels.

Think what you want, but Rolf uses the AC 420 rim (slightly modifyed for paired spokes), and the rear hub, with different flanges then the AC model, all internals were the same, but now rolf has the Ti carrier instead of the previous alu carrier, and the pawl system has changed.

They also use to use the AC front hub as well, but now have a new hub in use.

And if you doubt me on this, I have spoken to AC about this, rolf, and ,my dealer about the similarities. I've even have had the 420's and Vigors side by side.

Trust me, they are pretty much the same thing, one has paried spokes and hidden nipples, the other standard lacing.

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MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT! HUH!

Well, I've learned something new .. but am still surprised. Is this only true for the Vigors (420s)? I've got the Elan's and I'm concerned now if I'm just using a different design with AC hubs and rims. My Elan's have been bullet proof (with the exception of a rollerblader that ran into my rear wheel and busted a spoke).

The 2004 Rolf wheels use a 6802 bearing for the non drive side. This is a bit different than the American Classic bearing. The Rolf also has a different bearing retention system using set screws.

The 2003 hubs are definitely Shook design.

The rim extrusions probably came from the same plant with only minor change to the inner drift to give the thicker spoke bed required for paired spoking with hidden nipples.

Same thing with the elan and the 350's.

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MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT! HUH!

Thank you Superlite.

Just called Rolf and talked to a guy at length about this and he said that it's not the same rim as the 350, that it's a different design. Both rims come from the same manufacturer but it's a different design. Maybe he's just saying the same thing you are. Anyway, I'm not so concerned about the rims even if they were the same, it's the hub internals that worried me.

And yes, it's true they used to use AC hubs (internals only) but they've had little problem with them so far, and if there is a problem they'd replace the bearings with the new ones (made local in the US as opposed to the taiwan made AC stuff). The handful of problems they've had were due to the retention spring, and that one has to be very careful when servicing the bearings - improper installation by shops and individuals created problems. The bottom line (according to him) is if they're working good now then they'll keep doing so. The only possible problem is when maintenance will be needed (probably not a bad idea to switch to the new bearings at that time). Anyway, it's all good news to me. And, I thank you for the info.

He's BSing you on the rim. They are the same. Maybe he forget that shook changed the 350 rim after one year.

The first 350's and the original elan are the same rim.

The new 350's and the aero elan share the same rim.

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MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT! HUH!

If that's true I think that's fine. I haven't heard any problems with the rim, have you or anyone else? I know I haven't had any problems with it.