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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:20 am 
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Posts: 322
I am searching for a lightweight and very laterally stiff carbon frame. Some aero advantage would be a bonus but isn't a requirement. A compliant ride is always welcome too but this bike will be built for speed, sprinting and rides under 4hrs in duration.

The problem is that I need a large frame (~58cm) for my 820mm saddle height that has a Stack measurement of at least 590mm and ideally 600mm. Most of the framesets that caught my attention have the correct Reach (390 - 405mm) but not enough Stack height for my poor old neck. These include the BMC SLR01, Bianchi Oltre XR2, Cipollini RB1K, '16 Trek Madone 9 and a few others. Strangely the Pinarello F8 has almost too much Stack height (612mm) in the 595 size, plus I have yet to read a rave review on the F8 and I am not sure how stiff it is. Is the F8's stiffness up there with the best of them?

Geometry-wise the best frameset for me seems to be the Storck Aernario Platinum G1. It does get rave reviews and many comments about how stiff it feels under power. The downsides are that I don't like the boring matte black paint and the price is a bit more than I wanted to spend. Since I don't have a LBS that sells Storck mail-order is my only choice; can someone recommend a good Storck dealer with sharp pricing? Another Storck question - the Aernario Pro G1 frameset is less expensive, has more interesting paint and listed at 120g heavier. Does anyone know if it is as stiff as the Platinum model?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:01 am 
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Have you considered a Cervelo S5?

http://www.cervelo.com/media/docs/S5-7b32c93e-2eb2-412a-9c2d-b390f1cd40d4-0.pdf

Size 58 seems about right in reach + stack.

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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:01 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:28 am 
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You haven't read any rave reviews about the F8?

http://pelotonmagazine.com/tested/pinar ... ew-images/
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/c ... -15-49629/
http://www.bicycleandrider.com/bicyclea ... -f8-review
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/pinarello/dogm ... -f8-review
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/r ... heels.html

What about a Parlee Z5? The Large Tall has a stack of 603 and a reach of 391. The Z3 isn't aero, but the size Large Parlee Altum has a variable stack and reach that seems like it fits within your criteria.

The XL Time Skylon has 601mm of stack and 397mm of reach.

Cervelo S3 likely the better all-rounder than the S5, and the 58cm has a stack of 605mm and reach of 396mm.

Given your stack/reach criteria, I would think that Storck is just about the last brand that you should consider. Storck are known for low stack and very long reach, which is not what you're wanting. The 59cm doesn't meet your 600mm ideal stack height (595mm) and is at your maximum reach of 405mm. The next size up, the 63cm, has a massive 638mm of stack and 416mm of reach.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am 
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As you know OP...frames change size to size much more in stack than they do in reach. What is the max reach you can tolerate based upon minimum stem length? This will allow you ride the largest frame size possible opening up the most options to achieve the tall stack height you seek. In some bike models for example this maybe a size 60.
OP...take a look at the new Madone in H2 geometry. Believe it nails the geometry you seek...aero bike with great ride and is built for racing and should have plenty of lateral stiffness.
PS: how tall are you and what is your cycling inseam from PB to ground?

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/rev ... e-9-series


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:19 pm
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Felt AR is just a tiny bit long and low at a reach of 406 and stack of 388 for size 58. It is one of the most aero frames out there and moderate in the lightness category. Cervelo's R3 and S3 have identical geometry at a stack of 605 and reach 396 in size 58, and you get to pick whether weight or aero is more important to you.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:51 pm 
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The weight difference between the S3 and R3 is only about 90 grams. The S3 is supposed to be very comfortable (I haven't had an opportunity to ride one yet), so it seem to be the best of both worlds for what your looking for.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:02 pm 
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highdraw wrote:
As you know OP...frames change size to size much more in stack than they do in reach. What is the max reach you can tolerate based upon minimum stem length? This will allow you ride the largest frame size possible opening up the most options to achieve the tall stack height you seek. In some bike models for example this maybe a size 60.
OP...take a look at the new Madone in H2 geometry. Believe it nails the geometry you seek...aero bike with great ride and is built for racing and should have plenty of lateral stiffness.
PS: how tall are you and what is your cycling inseam from PB to ground?


I have a bike with the following geometry (130mm/6deg stem) that fits perfectly! I could drop down to a 120mm stem and ride a frame with up to 410mm Reach.

Seat tube length (centre to top) 580
Top tube length (horizontal) 590
Front centre 614 (I need no less than 605mm to avoid massive toe overlap)
STACK – 608
REACH – 401

The Madone with H2 geometry is a good suggestion but it would be nice to have the lighter H1 carbon layup. The new Madone might be like a Nissan GT-R, hugely effective and accomplished but not very pretty :lol:

savechief - Thanks for the links, those are certainly some very positive reviews and they have made me rethink the P8 because all of the testers comment on how stiff it is while accelerating. I could use the 595 size with no headset spacers and get low enough. The funny think is the P8 does nothing for me aesthetically or from a brand/marketing perspective. Regardless, if it is the best bike for my needs I need to consider it.

glam2deaf - I know Cervelo builds very impressive and well-respected bikes but I simply have no desire to own one. Just purely a personal thing because I don't doubt the bikes are excellent.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:38 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:34 pm
Posts: 232
Location: North Carolina
BH Ultralight EVO (claimed sub 700g for size Medium) has some very close numbers in the size XL.

Stack: 594mm
Reach: 396mm

I have the 2014 Ultralight size L and frame came in at 820g (claimed 750g for size medium). Very light frame and exceptionally stiff with the BB386 bottom bracket shell design.

i believe frame-set retail is still set at $4000 USD

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:40 pm 
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Trek Emonda SLR H2. Not as aero as the Madone, but it hits all the marks in a size 60, and it comes with the 700 series carbon, which is your knock on the Madone.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:27 pm 
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RedRacer wrote:
I am searching for a lightweight and very laterally stiff carbon frame. Some aero advantage would be a bonus but isn't a requirement. A compliant ride is always welcome too but this bike will be built for speed, sprinting and rides under 4hrs in duration.

The problem is that I need a large frame (~58cm) for my 820mm saddle height that has a Stack measurement of at least 590mm and ideally 600mm. Most of the framesets that caught my attention have the correct Reach (390 - 405mm) but not enough Stack height for my poor old neck. These include the BMC SLR01, Bianchi Oltre XR2, Cipollini RB1K, '16 Trek Madone 9 and a few others. Strangely the Pinarello F8 has almost too much Stack height (612mm) in the 595 size, plus I have yet to read a rave review on the F8 and I am not sure how stiff it is. Is the F8's stiffness up there with the best of them?

Geometry-wise the best frameset for me seems to be the Storck Aernario Platinum G1. It does get rave reviews and many comments about how stiff it feels under power. The downsides are that I don't like the boring matte black paint and the price is a bit more than I wanted to spend. Since I don't have a LBS that sells Storck mail-order is my only choice; can someone recommend a good Storck dealer with sharp pricing? Another Storck question - the Aernario Pro G1 frameset is less expensive, has more interesting paint and listed at 120g heavier. Does anyone know if it is as stiff as the Platinum model?


The better your information and preferences in your startpost, the better and more useful answers in the right direction you get.
Too many open questions to give a solid advice.
You didn't mention if you do races, or your weight, body measurements, budget, your current bike/geometry, etc etc.

In general: In the very past there where issues with stiffness of carbon frames. But for years that is not a problem anymore. For most people the average frameset is stiff enough. All topframes are light, so also not something to bother. When youre strong and heavy rider you maybe even better off with a more solid bike of few grams more, than uberlight. in other words: How correct is your focus on light and stiff?

You ask for Storck dealers but forgot to tell in which country you live.
eg when I come with an European dealer when you are American you most likely need to pay extra tax and higher shipment than necessary.


When you complain on your old poor neck, you maybe need to consider that youre looking to the wrong kind of bike anyway . . . . The Storck is not only uberexpensive but has a very low headtube, which force a particular low sitting position.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:21 am
Posts: 152
Location: Canberra, Australia
What about a Lapierre? both the Aircode and the Xelius in XL have a stack of 590 and reach of 398.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Posts: 53
I also suggest you have a look at a Parlee Z5, which comes (came) in a tall headtube version. Or the Z5 replacement Altum, which has multiple top caps that give you a tall stack if you want it. There are a number of Z5's still available, including on Ebay. (I bought a 2012 NOS Z5 SLi this summer on Ebay, but in normal head tube length, not the tall. But there are regularly tall head tube Z5 frames and bikes on Ebay.)


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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:28 pm 


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