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Who will win the TDF?
Poll ended at Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:45 am
Jan Ullrich 38%  38%  [ 35 ]
Lance Armstrong 48%  48%  [ 44 ]
Iban Mayo 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Tyler Hamilton 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Mario Cippolini :) 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Other 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 91
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:10 pm 
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Whoever said that USPS hasnt changed in 5 years....WHAT??!?! :roll: They went from being all-american to.....spanish? The ONLY 2 guys from the original 1999 tour team on the 2004 team are george hincapie and of course lance.

Carmichael is a joke. Well until you consider that he's such a cunning businessman that he decided it would be smart to drug up the 1990 (plus or minus 1 year, i forgot which year it was) junior US national team right before worlds to give them results and himself a name. That self-serving disgrace of a human being.

Flame me, I dare you, Ill back myself up with facts. And you don't want to know them, cuz your pretty picture of carmichael will be ruined.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:19 pm 
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Not that I'm about to flame you......but what's the details and facts? Just curious.


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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:19 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:53 pm 
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HawkMt210 wrote:
Carmichael is a joke. Well until you consider that he's such a cunning businessman that he decided it would be smart to drug up the 1990 (plus or minus 1 year, i forgot which year it was) junior US national team right before worlds to give them results and himself a name. That self-serving disgrace of a human being.


There were plenty of other people handing out dope, too. I don't have any dirt on Carmichael and doping during his stint with the National Team, but I know at least two junior riders who were faced with doping or being thrown off the team and blacklisted.

Anyone who thinks doping doesn't happen in American cycling has some pretty rose-colored glasses on.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:19 am 
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It happens in american cycling, specifically among an elite few (the most known being a certain c***s h****r, n****n o****l, and t*m d*******n, well the last one moved to europe and now sucks cuz he doped in the us and was good but then he doped in europe where everyone dopes and is just mediocre). I have the facts written down bout carmichael, i saved them, ill get them in the morning, but the basics of it are that he got this doctor on the week leading up to worlds to inject epo into the junior us national team, and tell them that they were vitamin injections. on a side note, for any of you who have kids: imagine if you entrusted your 17 or 18 year old kid to a coach for 2 weeks and then he injects drugs into them, how would you feel? well one of the riders didnt feel too good about it when he found out a decade later and sued carmichael. i think the case is still in the courts, either that or carmichael hushed him up with a bribe, i dont know what happened really after he sued him. anyways i can give more specifics in the morning.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:12 am 
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HawkMt210 wrote:
on a side note, for any of you who have kids: imagine if you entrusted your 17 or 18 year old kid to a coach for 2 weeks and then he injects drugs into them, how would you feel?


Being that age, I'd feel absolutely stupid for letting anyone inject anything into me aside from scheduled immunizations. Quite frankly I don’t see how those kids could have honestly thought they were vitamins, provided they’re not utter morons.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:21 am 
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Lots of vitamins are injected in europe, there is a nee for trust between coach and athlete.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:06 pm 
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HawkMt210 wrote:
It happens in american cycling, specifically among an elite few (the most known being a certain c***s h****r, n****n o****l, and t*m d*******n, well the last one moved to europe and now sucks cuz he doped in the us and was good but then he doped in europe where everyone dopes and is just mediocre). I have the facts written down bout carmichael, i saved them, ill get them in the morning, but the basics of it are that he got this doctor on the week leading up to worlds to inject epo into the junior us national team, and tell them that they were vitamin injections. on a side note, for any of you who have kids: imagine if you entrusted your 17 or 18 year old kid to a coach for 2 weeks and then he injects drugs into them, how would you feel? well one of the riders didnt feel too good about it when he found out a decade later and sued carmichael. i think the case is still in the courts, either that or carmichael hushed him up with a bribe, i dont know what happened really after he sued him. anyways i can give more specifics in the morning.


Well unless you witnessed these alleged event(s) then they are just hearsay and therefore cannot be trusted. Just because someone alleges something and the story gets printed it is true? :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:40 pm 
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I agree, not that it couldn't happen, but Hawk's statements are pretty shakey at best. One of those things, that unless you can prove it, I'm not buying it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:42 pm 
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well i can guarantee the part bout those 3 american riders, i even know what one of them can jack his hematocrit up to without keeling over, and its a good bit over 60 (remember that in the US, its a lot harder legally for anti-doping agencies to take blood samples so its like having a blank check with blood doping products), but we will leave it at that so i dont say something that will get me in trouble. as for the other stuff, i seem to have lost the stuff where i wrote it down, but its pretty much known that carmichael is corrupt....if you are a lance worshipper/cts junkie then you can not believe it if you wish


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:45 pm 
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HawkMt210 wrote:
well i can guarantee the part bout those 3 american riders, i even know what one of them can jack his hematocrit up to without keeling over, and its a good bit over 60, but we will leave it at that so i dont say something that will get me in trouble. as for the other stuff, i seem to have lost the stuff where i wrote it down, but its pretty much known that carmichael is corrupt....if you are a lance worshipper/cts junkie then you can not believe it if you wish


"carmichael is corrupt" hahaha you could say that about almost anyone who is powerful, rich or famous.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:47 pm 
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again not that I don't believe it could happen but with statements like yours, I wouldn't believe you for one second. To say you can guarantee it and then say you can't tell anyone is such a joke. Are you a top secrete agent working for USADA and can't divulge any confidential materials?

I certainly don't worship CTS as a matter of fact I think is company is way over rated (especially for what he charges).

If you want any of us on this forum to consider any statements you make as credible, your going to have to do alot better.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:01 pm 
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lol i dont really care if you believe me or not, its the fact that you dont believe me that keeps the cycling world, and the cycling business, going round in the face of what top pros do. so on one level i should be painting you a pretty picture so that you'll keep on denying all the bad stuff and keep on thinking top pros are clean and keep on buying bikes that they ride. im telling you from direct heresay. in the case of those pros, my friend is a friend of a certain soigneur if you care but thats all im going to say, that should be past my limit cept this is a small forum. do what you want with that info, and for the good of the cycling business, but not for the good of the cycling world, deny it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:41 pm 
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Yes, I fear the Hawk's comments are only the tip of the iceberg. I know some Pro's and you can safely say that 90% of them are or have been taking 'stuff' at one time or the other. Ranging from perfectly over-the-counter legal things to black market medical resources . It's even creeping into the MTB circuit now. The more money gets involved, the more people are willing to take anything that will help them get better than the other guy. The things they will use will stand up the hairs on your arms, illegal stuff or even cancer medicaments (before they are issued for general use) are on the list. Even with the best medical entourage which only the top Pro's can and will afford , now and then some of them die or get sick and disappear from view.

But perhaps this discussion can be lifted out of the TDF thread, we're getting seriously OT here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:53 pm 
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Come on Hawk.....direct heresay....that's a contradiction in terms. A friend of a friend of a guy that works with a pro. Your getting your info 4th hand.

I do agree with Adri and you that alot of pros have or do use drugs. Like Adri said, some are legal and some go way over the bounds. It would be stupid to think that it doesn't happen. I do think it's safe to assume that a certain population in the cycling world (road and MTB) do illegal stuff. That's a pretty safe generalization.

But Hawk's statements about a specific incident regarding a specific person is based on info that is so far from a "real" direct source that it's just not credible. Did it happen....maybe, but you sure as hell can't guarantee that it did. All I'm saying is don't make statements that you can't prove about a specific incident or person.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:47 pm 
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if you want to continue about drugs and athletes go here :arrow: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... php?t=2515

i started a thread in the training section, with some info on gene doping.


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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:47 pm 


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