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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 110
Location: South NJ Shore
Heh, Superlite - Guess some folks must bash what they don't own. Must do so to justify their own selections, I suppose.

Trek probably does as much for cycling worldwide as any other single company, and, they make an outstanding product line (although my only Trek is an '89 720 lugged steel) that covers the full range of riders, both on-road and off. Trek is by far the largest seller in the U.S. and they didn't get there by offering substandard products. Like them or not, they make an excellent product and their carbon fiber bikes are second to none, based on the feedback I get from those many folks I know who ride them. Their 5200 and above is definitely the bike of choice in the two clubs I ride with. And they stand behind their products. Whether it is a new paint job or a new frameset. I only wish Campa could do so well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:15 am 
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Location: Colorado
Quote:
Heh, Superlite - Guess some folks must bash what they don't own. Must do so to justify their own selections, I suppose


OK, then why were you talking crap about Shimano earlier, it's not even part of the topic.

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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:15 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:15 am
Posts: 3250
Location: tucson
anyway, back to topic, sort of...Whats with the red spokes on Landis' wheels? http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/ ... tage4/1289


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 101
Location: U.S.
I dunno... but he sure doesn't look too happy about them!

:lol:

-----

afa: Trek

I put 20,000+ miles on a 5900 over the past 3 years (and had a 5500 before that). A very functional bike, rides/handles well, but definitely nothing special in the fit/finish/workmanship. Many 5900s had problems with headset fit, as well as too much interference on the bearing installed on the bottom of the steerer. I'd call it "poor dimensional quality control" (I've fixed many of them for the LBS). Additionally, the frame simply looked like it was pulled from the mold, shot with that ugly semi-clear coat, and sent out the door.

Now I have a TCR-0, and not only does it ride/handle better than the Trek, but the finish work looks like jewelry compared to the Trek.

Oh.... "IMO". :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 7:13 am
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Location: Finland
If you look first Mavic Cross max/Helium/Cosmos, pre 2004' wheels hubs, they are made same way, nothing new...

And, yes, new D-A's are ugly....specially sifters. 10s. D-A set would look desent only TT-bike, may be...only way make them look ever worst is put them to something "toy" frame like Giant. Frame model with 3 sizes? Not very practical joke.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:18 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
No disagreements about the frame, but I feel the same about campy shifters :wink:

Brian


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:26 am 
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This thread has turned into a slam-fest! I personally wouldn't buy a trek but they make some fine frames, including Lance's new ride. Ultimately it only has to please one guy: Lance! If there's anyone worthy of analyzing a bike's stiffness and ridability I'd say he's world class enough to do so .. I thought the article on the bike was real interesting. Trek has some leading edge tech going into that frame.

Samu Ilonen wrote:
And, yes, new D-A's are ugly....specially sifters. 10s. D-A set would look desent only TT-bike, may be...only way make them look ever worst is put them to something "toy" frame like Giant. Frame model with 3 sizes? Not very practical joke.


LOL, and now someone's slamming the Giants! :roll: Hey, I've got a TCR composite and it's the nicest, stiffest, lightest bike for the money anywhere IMHO. And all the world class teams like T-mobile, etc, don't ride toys.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:37 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
This thread hasn't been commenting on the stiffness and weight of the Trek OCLV frames, but the paint job. I don't think that's unfair.

For the money the CR1 frame is better (if you can find/order one). The Giant bike is a better $ package.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:46 am 
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Bruiser wrote:
This thread hasn't been commenting on the stiffness and weight of the Trek OCLV frames, but the paint job. I don't think that's unfair.

For the money the CR1 frame is better (if you can find/order one). The Giant bike is a better $ package.


Well, maybe half the thread has been about the paint .. which in my opinion has been completely off topic if you look at superlites original post! Who care's about the frikin paint?! That entire article wasn't discussing paint!! Some of you guys sound like chicks trying to pick out shoes or something. I imagine that Lance armstrong would wear a dress up Alpe D'huez if looking better would make him faster!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:58 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
For $A10,000 I don't want a bike that looks like the run of the mill Sora equiped Trek. There are better quality and price conscious frames which do give the satisfaction of a high quality finish.

For the same money I'd buy a Litespeed Ghisallo or a CR1 with a spare wheelset. I'm not sure if Trek are priced the same in the US.

Brian


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:22 am 
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Location: Colorado
Quote:
Well, maybe half the thread has been about the paint .. which in my opinion has been completely off topic if you look at superlites original post! Who care's about the frikin paint?! That entire article wasn't discussing paint!! Some of you guys sound like chicks trying to pick out shoes or something. I imagine that Lance armstrong would wear a dress up Alpe D'huez if looking better would make him faster!!


Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Bobalou :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:15 am 
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Location: Finland
Why I don't like Giant's:

-Feel it's bit stupid to make frames only in 3 sizes. They fit really well only rare people. I must exsample use 135mm (really 140mm) stem+M size or 105m stem+L. Both will not delivere goot ride and would look funny.
-2003 composite fork was awfull, very flexy and bad quality. One brokes on crown. In Finland, they are very common in racing since sponsoring system. (I really trust only Stork Stiletto, Easton, Look or Reynolds forks)
-lot of owners says frame flexes too much
-head set/integrated "cups" are crap

Trek in way better,stiffer (OCLV 110SL), better fork,desent Chris King headset can be used,lot of sizes. Only bad thing is that they are too low, lot of spacers+tall seatpost=not nice...look Lances bike...IF 60cm size had "58" size toptube, it would be perfect.

But next tour mag is test about new Giant frame, I'm waiting to see how stiff it is, specially on steering side.

Just my oppinions,no flames. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:43 pm 
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Superlite wrote:
Quote:
Well, maybe half the thread has been about the paint .. which in my opinion has been completely off topic if you look at superlites original post! Who care's about the frikin paint?! That entire article wasn't discussing paint!! Some of you guys sound like chicks trying to pick out shoes or something. I imagine that Lance armstrong would wear a dress up Alpe D'huez if looking better would make him faster!!


Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Bobalou :thumbup:


You're welcome SL. Hey.. plus I didn't misspell anything either. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 29
I apologize if this has been brought up before.

It may interest some of you to know the Trek frames are lugged frames with tubes bonded on. Go to www.closedmold.com click on the blue Trek bicycle to see how the frames are made. Also cruise around the site and you can find more pictures.

The reason I mention this is a lugged frame regardless of what the lugs are made of is a frame designed for ease of manufacture not for performance at any cost. A frame molded in one piece can have far more intricate and efficient fiber placement and can be constructed lighter and stiffer than a lugged frame. A lugged frame requires excess material and adhesive in the region where the tube and lug are bonded together. Also a lugged frame by design will have discontinious fibers between the tubes and the joints.

Of course Lance's bike is probably the ultimate lugged frame But personaly I would prefer a one piece work of art.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:10 pm 
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Samu Ilonen wrote:
Why I don't like Giant's:

-Feel it's bit stupid to make frames only in 3 sizes. They fit really well only rare people. I must exsample use 135mm (really 140mm) stem+M size or 105m stem+L. Both will not delivere goot ride and would look funny.
-2003 composite fork was awfull, very flexy and bad quality. One brokes on crown. In Finland, they are very common in racing since sponsoring system. (I really trust only Stork Stiletto, Easton, Look or Reynolds forks)
-lot of owners says frame flexes too much
-head set/integrated "cups" are crap


Not that it's a big deal, but they actually offer 4 sizes. You know what Samu, you can say something bad about any frame maker, particularly the mass produced ones. You have to take the good with the bad. I disagree with you on stiffness, as well as some Cat 1,2 & 3 racers I know would disagree with you, although most of the guys I know are racing the aluminum Giants because they can't afford to crash a carbon bike. Stiffest frame they've ridden (second stiffest I've ridden). They aren't so hard to fit really, as long as you know what geometry you like you can make it work easy, assuming you're not retarded and can use measuring tape. :roll: My point is it's not the "rare" person that will fit one, it's more the rare person that you can't get to fit one.

I tell you something else about the Giants, no small thing, they've got probably the best warranty service of all the manufacturer's, at least in the US. I've seen frames replaced no questions asked and within a weeks time.

I've got 4k miles on my TCR and zero headset problems and I ride it on bad roads all the time. I'd prefer a Chris King but it's not as bad as you say it is.

I don't take offense at your comments I just think it's another case of "trashing a brand you don't like and have never ridden" because I know Giant makes some awesome frames especially for the money. I wish there were some rules that people could only trash what they own or something instead of spreading biased, misinformation.


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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:10 pm 


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