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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:11 am 
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Location: Colorado
I walked in the shop today, and almost messed my pants! I stood in awe and looked upon the T-Mobile frame suspended from the ceiling. I walked over, took it off the hooks and held it in my hands. It felt good. :unbelievable:

The frame and fork combo feel so light! It was shocking! UNDER 3lbs!! With headset!

And the finish is top notch! I have never, and I mean NEVER been a fan of giant, and never considered them more then a massed produced piece of junk unitl recent years, and now seeing there latest creation has convinced me that they are at the top. It really is one of the finest crafted framesets I have ever seen.

I WANT ONE! WHO WANTS A CANNONDALE CAAD 7? :D

I'm going back over to the shop tomorrow and going to weigh it, I'll bring my digital camry and get some pics as well.

Giant is bustin it out! :thumbup: :beerchug:

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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:11 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:31 am 
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Is it a new fork as well, or still the Areo SL? The shop around here had a T-Mobile frame, but it sadly wasn't the advance.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:50 am 
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Finally we agree again. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:14 am 
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The german mag TOUR tested both the Composite and the Advanced. I guess I'll stick to the old one, I'd even choose a CR1 over the Advanced - and that should mean something considering I'm a Giant-maniac (I own 5 Giants atm, 7 last year).


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:10 pm 
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Curious to why you would choose the CR1 over the TCR Advance. Have a link to the test by chance?

Damn, I really would like one of these things, but the pink T mobile pick sceme, I dunno, seems kinda girly. But I was just messing with the numbers, if I were to sawp my parts onto that frameset my bike would weigh less then 6600g(14.5lbs) and considering most of my bike parts are "heavy" thats pretty damned light.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:52 pm 
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I don't want to scan and publish the article. The latest issue of TOUR mag is not even available at stores, just for subscribers. There may be a copyright problem I want to avoid. Anway: these are the figures:


TCR Composite:

Torsional stiffness steering area: 56 Nm/°
Torsional stiffness bottom bracket: 101 Nm/°
Frame weight: 1100 g
Fork weight: 380 g


TCR Advanced:

Torsional stiffness steering area: 67 Nm/°
Torsional stiffness bottom bracket: 86 Nm/°
Frame weight (calculated): 1030 g (real weight over 1200 g).
Fork weight: 360 g

Those weights seem rounded, TOUR mag calculates a fictional weight for a 'standard' 57 cm frame (bleh, don't ask me ...).


I don't like the look of the new frame, especially not the seat tube. I don't want an integrated seatpost - how should I travel with the bike? I don't like the curved shape of the seat tube, too as well as the organic shapes at the junctions. The frame is not really light and also it's geometry is a little slacker than the Composite frame. The first Advanced prototype frames were very sexy, the final prototype version tested here is not. All in all I'll stick with my old frame or buy a new (second) Composite or even something completely different. The CR-1 would attract me more than the Advanced frame does.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:55 pm 
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I'm a subscriber as well but have to wait to the end of the damn month always :(


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:56 pm 
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Quote:
I don't want an integrated seatpost


It doesn't have the integrated seatpost, and the weights you listed are way off.

Frame weight 1030g, actual 1200g? Frame is around less then 900g. TOUR mag must not know what there doing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:01 pm 
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...I haven't seen the test yet but I have noticed some problems with their scale in the past. Maybe gravity is stronger in their area :?:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:14 pm 
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The prototype was delivered by the Giant Marketing Manager Europe (and not some obscure source). It's the first of the final prototypes that the T-Mobile team will use during the TdF. Check out the pic, it's the same version that was published on the french Giant site. The seattube has to be cut with a special (supplied) cutter and there is a 15 mm range for seat height adjustment.


Also TOUR is a very good mag, I trust their scales even as Giant-weenie. Those who don't may not be able to face the truth.


P.S. Suggested retail price will be 3.000,- EUR.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:45 pm 
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Dr.Dos wrote:
P.S. Suggested retail price will be 3.000,- EUR.


Ouch! The CR1 is looking like a better deal already. I'm assuming this is a complete bike price? If I remember right the TCR 0 when it came out was close to that price and then the price dropped. Maybe same story here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:26 pm 
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Nope: 3.000,- EUR retail for the frameset only (frame, fork, seatclamp, headset). Street prices will be lower obviously.

The CR-1 is the better deal imho. As for me, the Composite frame fits me like a glove - never touch a running system.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:56 pm 
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Dr.Dos wrote:
I don't want to scan and publish the article. The latest issue of TOUR mag is not even available at stores, just for subscribers. There may be a copyright problem I want to avoid. Anway: these are the figures:


TCR Composite:

Torsional stiffness steering area: 56 Nm/°
Torsional stiffness bottom bracket: 101 Nm/°
Frame weight: 1100 g
Fork weight: 380 g


TCR Advanced:

Torsional stiffness steering area: 67 Nm/°
Torsional stiffness bottom bracket: 86 Nm/°
Frame weight (calculated): 1030 g (real weight over 1200 g).
Fork weight: 360 g

Those weights seem rounded, TOUR mag calculates a fictional weight for a 'standard' 57 cm frame (bleh, don't ask me ...).


I don't like the look of the new frame, especially not the seat tube. I don't want an integrated seatpost - how should I travel with the bike? I don't like the curved shape of the seat tube, too as well as the organic shapes at the junctions. The frame is not really light and also it's geometry is a little slacker than the Composite frame. The first Advanced prototype frames were very sexy, the final prototype version tested here is not. All in all I'll stick with my old frame or buy a new (second) Composite or even something completely different. The CR-1 would attract me more than the Advanced frame does.


so your saying that my current giant is stiffer than the new advance model? does anyone have the figures on the scott cr-1 team issue on BB stiffness? they say its suppose to be stiffer; but by how much?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:12 pm 
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Scott CR1 Team Issue bb:100.0Nm/° (Tour 06/2003)
Scott CR1 Pro bb: 106Nm/° (Tour 01/2004)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:27 pm 
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Almost any test by TOUR mag has indicated decent bb stiffness on any frame. The Advanced frames figures are far enough.

But less than 60 nm/° torsional stiffness of the stearing area demands a capable rider in high speed situations. I can feel the frame flex on quick left-right (righ-left) transitions i.e. riding tight roundabouts at speed. I never experienced oscillations building up at high speeds on descents (like 80 km/h / 50+ mp/h). The carbon fibre materials dampens vibrancy in different fashion than aluminium does. I wouldn't want to see a heavier (80 kg / 175 lbs) newbie in the Alpes on a Giant Composite frame though.


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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:27 pm 


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