Chain drop from large to small chainring....

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Boshk
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

Calnago wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:05 pm
Actually, now that you bring that up... I think you're right. Perhaps they come with the complete set of ergo levers, which includes the cables and inline adjuster in one package. I'll have to check on that... good point. Maybe you just get the inline adjuster when you buy a set of 2015+ levers, yes I think that's how it works now that you mention it. So, if you have the levers, you should have the adjuster. If you don't have the 2015 or newer levers and front derailleur, you do not need this inline adjuster at all.
My inline adjuster seems to work but it definitely doesn't have a Campy logo on it. Some of the videos I've seen shows the adjuster with campy logo similar to the band-on bracket for the FD.
I think the shop just didn't bother using it.
Last edited by Boshk on Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

They sell individual chain pins in the event you have a fairly good chain and want to break it for some reason. As long as you have the tool to peen it back together that's fine. Campy states that you can use up to two pins per chain, meaning two breaks. Chainlength is super easy to set with Campy.

Re your inline cable adjuster, it should have come with the Ergoshifters. It's just so much better than any other adjuster I've seen.
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Campy logo is on the other side, but this is what it looks like.
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fogman
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by fogman

Great thread. I am going to bookmark this page for future reference.

Can you put the Loc-tite on the limit screw threads without unscrewing them (let it seep in), as I have them set perfectly and don’t want to start over. I notice that they do occasionally vibrate loose on both my front and rear Campagnolo SR derailleurs.


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Calnago
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by Calnago

No, it won't seep in. Don't be afraid... the limit screws are the easy part. It's the tension on the front derailleur cable and the alignment of the front derailleur cage that are the crucial things that a lot of folks seem to mess up. Oh, and forgetting to keep the outerlimit screw backed off while setting the exact tension on the cable. The only thing about backing off the outer limit screw till the end is you have to be careful when shifting to the big ring (during the setup only), so as not to throw the chain off the outside. But once the front derailleur cable is tensioned ok, play around with the shifting... then shift to the big ring and make sure you can hit all cogs cleanly with no chain rub on the derailleur forks, then finally just screw in the outer limit screw till you feel it touch the stop. Good to go!

Oh, and with the Loctite.... I just always apply over a paper towel, just a teensy bit on the threads, and then just touch the threads to the paper towel to soak off all the excess. Too much is just well, too much. You just want enough to "set" the bolt in it's threads.
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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

I don't understand how it can just be an FD issue. The OP said his chain gets thrown off his big ring without shifting. He is not severely crosschained either.

I'd love to get the theory to why this happens.

/a

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Sure... the front derailleur, when properly adjusted will have the inner plate extremely close to the chain when it's on the big ring, like less than 0.5mm, when it is completely crossed big/big. And when properly adjusted, you can nail every single cog smallest to biggest cleanly with no derailleur rub. It has no trim when on the big ring. in fact when on the big ring, you just leave it where it is until you want to shift back down to the small ring. When I asked some questions of the OP, he responded that Yes, it did only take one click of the left button and the chain would drop to the small ring. That immediately tells me there's not enough tension on the cable and the derailleur is not far enough outboard. And also, that there is quite a gap between the chain and the inner fork of the derailleur when on the big ring. If it's adjusted correctly, the inner derailleur fork will actually function as a chain drop device for the Big Ring when you think about it, as the inner fork is set very close to big ring. When shifting to the small ring, it should take two clicks and you should just click right through the first click to the stop (and second clikck). If you were only to press the thumb button only once when the chain is on the big ring, the chain should still be on the big ring, but it would be in no mans land and making all kinds of noise as it thinks about where it wants to settle, big or small. Is it clearer now?
To complete the scenario of shifting to the small ring for completeness, once the chain drops to the small ring, the derailleur is still not at it's furthest most inward position, at least it shouldn't be if adjusted correctly. You have one more click left, and you'll know where that is when you work your way up the cassette to the larger cogs and start to hear a bit of rub on the inner plate of the front derailleur when you're somewhere around the 4th cog from the top. At that point it's time to push the left button once more, assuming you're still wanting to go to larger cogs, and you will be noise free right to the largest cog.
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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

Thank you Calnago. (You spoil us with such detailed posts. Very generous, thx.)

If the inner plate is close to the chain in the big-big configuration, won't it easily get dropped outward when fiercely shifting front-big at the middle/small portion of the cassette?

On shimano/sram I don't think I could get away with that setup and not drop chains. Is it possible that campy fd cages are narrower than shimano/sram?

I'd love to give this config a try though. :)

/a

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Thanks!
And no, it doesn’t get thrown off the outside. The outer limit screw will prevent that. One key thing to do when setting up however is to leave the limit screw backed off until the final step. That way you can get the right tension in the front derailleur cable. But while getting there be careful not to throw the chain off the outer edge, cuz it can happen easily. Once everything is working perfect, then and only then put the chain on the big ring and adjust the outer limit screw until it touches the stop. Play with it a bit then be as “fierce” as you want and it’ll be fine. I love Campy mechanical because I can manhandle it if I want or be as gentle as a baby with it while shifting. Simultaneous front/rear shifts. All the time. And always the choice of 1,2, or 3 rear cog changes while simultaneously shifting the front. I rarely shift the front rings without simultaneously shifting the rear so that I end up where I want to be instantly. None of this shift one first, then the other bs. You can set up Shimanos synchroshift to do the same thing but you have to choose how many rear cogs it will shift when you shift the front. If you set it for one, it will always shift one. If you set it for two, it will always shift two, etc. with Campy mechanical I have every option available at any time, and maybe I want to shift both front and rear simultaneously or maybe I don’t. Those options are always available. Not so with the synchroshift. You get what you set it up for but certainly have to accept that you will never have all options at your disposal.
Regarding Shimano front derailleurs, they work sort of similarly in that the setup of front derailleur cable tension is very important. There are two positions in the big ring. And two positions in the small ring. I often see that set up just as poorly and sometimes people don’t even realize they should be able to get four distinct derailleur postions with their Shimano stuff up front. Been like that since Shimano 9000 at least.
I have SRAM Red 10sp on a TT bike. Front shifting is not SRAMS strong suit.
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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

Outer plate should be around 1-0.5mm away from the chain in big-small, right? (This way the chain doesn't fly off when shifting quickly.)

What I was trying to get to before is this. When setting this gap, won't the limit screw infringe on the necessary space needed to reach the last click position set by the cable tension you defined in the previous step?

That has happened to me a few times. I gotta set a larger big-small outer gap than I want just so I can shift onto the big ring when I'm in the middle of the cassette.

/a

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, I see. First, yes... set the outerlimit screw so that the fork of the front derailleur is as close to the chain as you can get without any rubbing while still allowing for a quick crisp, or even "fierce" (I like that word, shift from the small to big ring.

There's some "overrun" in the front derailleurs last "click". It will go a little bit past the "clickpoint", then settle in at the click. As long as the outer limit screw allows for that little bit of overrun, and it does when set up properly, the derailleur will complete a small to big chainring change, then settle in at the clickpoint. Of course, if you really set the limit screw in too far, then it wouldn't allow for the over run and you'd probably never be able to get chain to shift quickly and settle in on the big ring crisply and quickly. That is why it is critical to get your front shifting set up before setting the outer limit screw. And yes, you'll know when it's right, because if it was test shifting just fine with the limit screw backed out, then screw it in to the point where it's not seeming to be able to make the shift very well, and back it off just a tad. Shouldn't be much.
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