Canyon Aeroad Disc or Ultimate Disc

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
cyclotron8000
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm

by cyclotron8000

I'm in the exact situation deciding between the Ultimate and Aeroad as the daily driver. I've been perfectly happy on 25mm tires, albeit mounted to wide Stan's Avion wheels which balloon the tires quite a bit. I love the idea of 28mm or even 30mm (a la the new Scott Foil Disc) for comfort and speed. I don't see any downside to the Aeroad other than less tire clearance.

I contacted Canyon directly and they linked me to that exact Road.cc photo of the 28mm tire on the Aeroad on an internally wide Reynolds wheel, which would lead me to believe that 28 is bigger than that. "Officially", a 25mm is what Canyon say fits. Photos & videos I've seen of the fork looks like there is loads of room, but finding a clear photo of the underside of the chain stays is almost impossible.

I was also told by Canyon that they are working on a customization system where you can choose seat post, bar/stem length, but not crank length. I'm deterred from the one-piece bar because of the stumpy stem lengths that are standard.

On a side note, what's everyone's opinion on R8000 vs. Di2? Never ridden electronic, but my heart says stay "pure" with mechanical.
Attachments
4SM_0960 copy.jpg
Aeroad160jpg copy.jpg
Not sure if this is a Disc or Rim version, but only underside pic I could find. Seems to be a good amount of room.

IchDien
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 am
Location: Veneto

by IchDien

Bordcla wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:19 pm

If you would need a 150 stem to make it work, then you should definitely be on a large frame, not on a medium.
Not to muddy this thread but I currently ride 130mm -17 stem with long reach bars. I have a very long torso and short legs so would not have a decent enough drop for me with the canyon stem / handlebar combo on an L. The head tube on a L is almost 180mm and with the 15mm headset cap it is even more.

150mm stems aren't too uncommon these days in the pro peloton, especially with the trend for placing the saddle further forward.

Kristoff's bike in many reports has a custom stem that measures 140-150mm.

Image

by Weenie


Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

cyclotron8000 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:28 pm
they linked me to that exact Road.cc photo of the 28mm tire on the Aeroad on an internally wide Reynolds wheel, which would lead me to believe that 28 is bigger than that.
What exactly do you mean? That contrary to what the road.cc poster says, the picture is NOT that of a 28mm Conti?

cyclotron8000
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm

by cyclotron8000

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:05 am
cyclotron8000 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:28 pm
they linked me to that exact Road.cc photo of the 28mm tire on the Aeroad on an internally wide Reynolds wheel, which would lead me to believe that 28 is bigger than that.
What exactly do you mean? That contrary to what the road.cc poster says, the picture is NOT that of a 28mm Conti?
I read that the Reynolds Assault SLG wheel pictured, which I believe was a "new" model Canyon was spec'ing on the Endurace. I can't recall where I saw it, but that it had a bigger internal width (19mm+) than the Strike, which is only 17mm. So therefore, the shown 28mm tire, on a wider internal rim, could well measure much bigger than 28mm. I have a set of 25mm tires on a set of Stan't Avion Disc which are 21mm internally, and although I haven't measured, make the 25s massive.

Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

cyclotron8000 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:50 am
Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:05 am
cyclotron8000 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:28 pm
they linked me to that exact Road.cc photo of the 28mm tire on the Aeroad on an internally wide Reynolds wheel, which would lead me to believe that 28 is bigger than that.
What exactly do you mean? That contrary to what the road.cc poster says, the picture is NOT that of a 28mm Conti?
I read that the Reynolds Assault SLG wheel pictured, which I believe was a "new" model Canyon was spec'ing on the Endurace. I can't recall where I saw it, but that it had a bigger internal width (19mm+) than the Strike, which is only 17mm. So therefore, the shown 28mm tire, on a wider internal rim, could well measure much bigger than 28mm. I have a set of 25mm tires on a set of Stan't Avion Disc which are 21mm internally, and although I haven't measured, make the 25s massive.
Don't know about you (and correct me if I'm wrong!) but I'm not worried about the width of the 28 mm Contis, so much as their HEIGHT, as it would seem that the tightest clearance would be to the rear wheel/seat tube cut-out area, and not so much between the chainstays.

Would the tires be taller or shorter on 17c rims, compared to 19c?

For what that's worth, I wrote to GCN after they posted the video on Youtube of Matt Stephens' Aeroad disc to ask if they tested it with 28mm Contis. They actually answered that he did use these tires at one point. They said that while the clearances were tight, the tires did fit. I guess I did not ask on which wheels he installed them, which brings me back to my point: would the tire clearance to the seat tube cutout get tighter (i.e., would the tire be taller) on an 17c compared to whatever he was running?

I did find this on Reynolds' website:

Image

Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

According to this website: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... i-23-25-28

The height of a 28 mm GP4000 on a 17c rim is 29mm, or 4mm taller than a 25c.

Assuming he used the tires on the same DT Swiss ERC 1100 wheels shown in the vid, these were 19c. No idea if this would have a measurable impact on the height of the tire? On the other hand, the picture of the Reynolds assault from road.cc clearly is of 17c internal width rim. So it would seem that it clears the seat cut-out. Just.

cyclotron8000
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 pm

by cyclotron8000

That's interesting to know about GCN. I know Simon used 28mm on his rim-version Aeroad, so I never really questioned the fit on a disc version, which surely would have even more room. Nobody ever really talks about the height of a tire! My assumption though, would be on a WIDER rim, 19c over 17c, the tire would get slightly shorter; as the tire is stretched a bit wider and would reduce the height slightly. I think clearance in the faring/cutout is tight even on the stock wheel and tire setup; that's the point for aerodynamics.

I've never been able to see an Aeroad in person either, so I'm doing all my research blindly.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 1831
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:52 am
According to this website: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... i-23-25-28

The height of a 28 mm GP4000 on a 17c rim is 29mm, or 4mm taller than a 25c.

Assuming he used the tires on the same DT Swiss ERC 1100 wheels shown in the vid, these were 19c. No idea if this would have a measurable impact on the height of the tire? On the other hand, the picture of the Reynolds assault from road.cc clearly is of 17c internal width rim. So it would seem that it clears the seat cut-out. Just.
The height of the tire is slightly higher in a wider rim with the same psi.
Usually you have however less psi in a wider tire so that makes it more or less the same height.

Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

If I get the Aeroad, I plan on running the stock Reynolds wheels for a while, and upgrading for Enve 5.6 disc before Haute Route next year. Or maybe Roval CLX 50 Disc wheels.

The Enve are 19mm wide internally, so hopefully the 28 Conti's fit with both 17 and 19 internal width.

Other option is the Ultimate. Tire clearance definitely not an issue, but the wheelset (aluminum and carbon-faired Mavic) is so heavy (1780 g) that I fear it'll completely spoil the ride of what is supposed to be a sprightly, snappy alrounder, requiring an immediate costly wheel upgrade, whereas the Aeroad's stock wheels are at least "usable".

IchDien
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 am
Location: Veneto

by IchDien

Surely if you sell the mavics new and upgrade immediately it is roughly the same cost as upgrading one year down the line.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 1831
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:49 pm
If I get the Aeroad, I plan on running the stock Reynolds wheels for a while, and upgrading for Enve 5.6 disc before Haute Route next year. Or maybe Roval CLX 50 Disc wheels.
Why not the DT Swiss ARC, PRC or ERC? I know that not all are available in Canada (for example the ERC 1100 Dicut 47 DB) but you could get them in the US.

Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

TonyM wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:15 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:49 pm
If I get the Aeroad, I plan on running the stock Reynolds wheels for a while, and upgrading for Enve 5.6 disc before Haute Route next year. Or maybe Roval CLX 50 Disc wheels.
Why not the DT Swiss ARC, PRC or ERC? I know that not all are available in Canada (for example the ERC 1100 Dicut 47 DB) but you could get them in the US.
Nothing against those per se but what would be the incentive to go to these relative newcomers at a cost that will surely be as high, if not higher, than the other established player's offerings?
Last edited by Bordcla on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 1831
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:32 pm
TonyM wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:15 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:49 pm
If I get the Aeroad, I plan on running the stock Reynolds wheels for a while, and upgrading for Enve 5.6 disc before Haute Route next year. Or maybe Roval CLX 50 Disc wheels.
Why not the DT Swiss ARC, PRC or ERC? I know that not all are available in Canada (for example the ERC 1100 Dicut 47 DB) but you could get them in the US.
Nothing against those per second but what would be the incentive to go to these relative newcomers at a cost that will surely be as high, if not higher, than the other established player's offerings?
DT Swiss is not really a newcomer....DT Swiss is much older than Enve :wink:
Brands like Enve and Roval use their internal and spokes for example because of the quality and the marketing.
Enve and Roval are only "established" in North America. Not in Europe where DT Swiss is the one of the best (with Lightweight).

The advantage is that you would get the best quality of the hubs, internals, spokes, rims and manufacturing. All DT and all swiss quality.
The new ARC and ERC have been developed with SwissSide in order to reduce the steering moment as this is as important as the aero advantage on real roads.
Here the ERC endurance range:
https://www.roadrevolution18.dtswiss.com/endurance/
And here the ARC aero range:
https://www.roadrevolution18.dtswiss.com/aero/

Many high end bike manufacturers use their wheels on their high end bikes (and also GCN): Wilier, Orbea, Canyon, BMC, ...

The pricing of DT Swiss is of course "Swiss".... :P

Bordcla
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Other options include the Shimano C40s on the Ultimate. I like the combination of good performance, bombproof durability and that titanium freehub body that doesn't score like aluminum with Shimano cassettes. Probably a little too low a profile for the Aeroad though...?

by Weenie


User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 1831
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Bordcla wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:10 pm
Other options include the Shimano C40s on the Ultimate. I like the combination of good performance, bombproof durability and that titanium freehub body that doesn't score like aluminum with Shimano cassettes. Probably a little too low a profile for the Aeroad though...?
The DA are said to be as reliable as the DT Swiss hubs/ internals.

I would take the 9170 C60 for the Aeroad!

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post