Shimano R9150 RD - Why so few direct mount hangers?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/01/tou ... o-men.html

One thing I noticed in this round up of pro bikes down under is how few of the Shimano sponsored teams have direct mount RD hangers. Only BMC seems to have developed a direct mount hanger for their bikes. I thought that by now all the bike makers would have developed a direct mount hanger for the new Shimano shadow style DA RD's since it would supposedly make a more rigid platform for the RD and allow the removal of that 'B' knuckle on the RD. It seems I thought wrong.

Any ideas?

by Weenie


wingguy
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by wingguy

Does getting rid of the B link really matter though? Apart from being able to say 'hey look, we're on point with the latest tech' is having that rigid platform going to make any difference to the quality and reliability of the already flawless R9100 shifting?

BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

wingguy wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:27 pm
Does getting rid of the B link really matter though? Apart from being able to say 'hey look, we're on point with the latest tech' is having that rigid platform going to make any difference to the quality and reliability of the already flawless R9100 shifting?
I don't know if it will - that's kind of what I am asking. I am still using a 9070 drive train.

ooo
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

because same frame design also used on 105 and sram bikes?

it only matters for some hanger designs, not all standard hangers have problems with slow wheel change with directmount rd
'

BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

ooo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:42 pm
because same frame design also used on 105 and sram bikes?

it only matters for some hanger designs, not all standard hangers have problems with slow wheel change with directmount rd
I understand that but I guess I should have been clearer with my question. I would think that the manufacturers would do a run of direct mount hangers for the frames they supply to the World Tour teams if that is, as has been said, the ideal set up. The fact that they haven't makes me wonder why.

Surely it's not beyond the capabilities of the manufacturers to design a direct mount hanger that can be swapped onto a frame designed for a normal RD and hanger and have both setups work well. It's only a $25 part and I am sure they could probably sell a bunch of them to buyers of their higher end frame sets.

ooo
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by ooo

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:54 pm
Surely it's not beyond the capabilities of the manufacturers to design a direct mount hanger that can be swapped onto a frame designed for a normal RD and hanger and have both setups work well. It's only a $25 part and I am sure they could probably sell a bunch of them to buyers of their higher end frame sets.
Selling bunch of hangers is not making same money as selling a few new framesets...
In mtb world there was never dual hanger option framesets
Probably direct mount hanger will appear earlier on thru-axle frames (like in mtb)
'

XCProMD
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Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Thing is, nobody but Shimano needed this standard, and it is not true that is stiffer.

As said above, Shimano tried to shower this down the throats of the industry and MTB riders some years ago and still most bikes around have the good ol’ hanger that has served us so well during the last 60 years.

I know a few pro mechanics... none of them could care less.



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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I recently had a custom Ti frame built for me. As a custom bike I could put any design I want on it. I opted for a direct mount hanger and direct mount brakes (with a Trek Domane fork with DM brake studs). The bike is built up with 9150 but the RD is a 8050 GS as I wanted low gearing. See the attached pics. The hanger is made by Paragon Machine Works. I recently found out that my hanger is the MTB version. Apparently the length is slightly different between the road and MTB versions. Paragon didn’t make it clear on their website but they have since corrected it. They will machine a new road version and send one to me. I’ve been using the MTB version without any issues. The DM design is superior and I’ll never go back to regular hangers. Wheel removal is so simple since the RD is not sitting below the wheel axle anymore. The hanger is super stiff and I believe the biggest benefit to shifting is on cobbles or classic races. I also love the DM brakes and I’ll never go back to regular brakes.

Image

Image




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BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:52 am
I recently had a custom Ti frame built for me. As a custom bike I could put any design I want on it. I opted for a direct mount hanger and direct mount brakes (with a Trek Domane fork with DM brake studs). The bike is built up with 9150 but the RD is a 8050 GS as I wanted low gearing. See the attached pics. The hanger is made by Paragon Machine Works. I recently found out that my hanger is the MTB version. Apparently the length is slightly different between the road and MTB versions. Paragon didn’t make it clear on their website but they have since corrected it. They will machine a new road version and send one to me. I’ve been using the MTB version without any issues. The DM design is superior and I’ll never go back to regular hangers. Wheel removal is so simple since the RD is not sitting below the wheel axle anymore. The hanger is super stiff and I believe the biggest benefit to shifting is on cobbles or classic races. I also love the DM brakes and I’ll never go back to regular brakes.

Image

Image




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Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. When I was chatting with him about this, my framebuilder mentioned that Road and MTB DM had slightly different specs and that many folks weren't aware of it or overlooked it.

ooo
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by ooo

can you make a comparison of hanger later? i think the difference will be something like this
Attachments
hanger.jpg
'

jih
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by jih

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:54 pm
I would think that the manufacturers would do a run of direct mount hangers for the frames they supply to the World Tour teams if that is, as has been said, the ideal set up. The fact that they haven't makes me wonder why.
Probably because the marginal gains here are too marginal for the teams to ask for new equipment.

Pro riders want their equipment to work. When you're using equipment for a living it's amazing how you stop getting excited about it and just start seeing it as a tool. Look how many teams substitute in Ultegra/Force components when it suits them.

The main benefit I can see in a race is faster wheel changes after a puncture. Rear shifting is already good enough to race on.

In amateur racing you're probably out if you puncture. On club rides it doesn't matter if a puncture takes 20 seconds longer to fix.

pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

The people who have spoken negatively on the DM hanger have never used one. It's funny so many people have opinions on something they have never used before. The person I spoke to at Paragon Machine Works (the owner?) says he has a DM hanger on his MTB and he's never going back. He wishes the industry would adopt it at a fast rate. Cycling is a strange sport such that there's a lot of old 'traditions' that took a long time to overcome. The mechanical to electronic shifting is such an example. Now every Pro bike has electronic shifting. We are seeing the same phenomenon on disk brakes right now.

By the way, a while back I read somewhere (here?) that Shimano has priced in a discount for large volume purchases of the 'shadow' RD without the B knuckle. Presumably this is a tactic to speed up the adoption of the DM hanger adoption.

Also, I must say after switching from a non-shadow to a shadow RD I noticed an improvement in shift quality. The shadow RD has a much higher spring tension in the pulley cage. The high tension keeps the chain slack non-existent and the shifts are quick and silent. To me the shadow technology is a big step forward. I came from Dura Ace 9070. I also have a mechanical Ultegra 8000 RD on my tandem. The mechanical version is also sublime just like the 8050.

Once I received the road specific hanger I will do a comparison and post the results here.

maxxevv
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by maxxevv

Haven't had one to try for shift quality but I would certainly appreciate the easier mount and dismount of wheels even for regular maintenance.

The current RD hanger is a long time legacy from like the 60's. Its really not the optimum position to be putting a hanger, even for non-shadow RD's.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

I also don't understand why the manufacturers don't offer these direct mount hangers on their top frames like S-works, Dogma F10, C60, Cento10 Air, etc.... :shock:
Is there only the BMC SLR01 having these among the top frames?

by Weenie


pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Because the industry is slow to adopt new technologies. Period. Look at the TDU bike tech galleries. Every Di2 equipped bike still has the external Di2 junction box.

Rather than wait for an off-the-shelf bike to offer the latest technologies I went with a custom Ti bike. My bike has DM brakes, DM hanger, internal Di2 bar-end junction box, and a T47 BB shell. Try find a mass produced bike with a T47 BB.

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