Colnago C64 First Look

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
mag
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

AJS914 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:31 pm
I thought the rumor was that the C64 was going to round 27.2mm with the internal clamp?
Fingers crossed... :D In such case I'm willing to be a sort of guinea pig and order one from the first batch.

by Weenie


chunky666
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:01 pm

by chunky666

nestornnk wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:52 pm
C64 will be fully designed and build by Colnago in Italy.
Direct mount brakes,same seatpost like the V2-r,different dropouts are some of the changes.
Will start with 4 normal colours and 2 art decor.Plus a team colour that has not been confirmed yet
Price will be around 5% higher than the C60 but now the seatpost will be always included
I wonder if it'll be matching Art Decor colour schemes to the Concept ones or something new?

shipley
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:01 am

by shipley

TonyM wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:49 pm
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:46 pm
(...)Thinking is Giant is giving them technical help on lowering the frame weight.
This is what I understood also in the cooperation agreement between Colnago and Giant.
Definitely not bad for Colnago and Giant hope to be the first in line if Colnago sells the brand oneday...
Hmm, and given number 1 son was the ‘brains’ behind outsourcing some production to the Far East it doesn’t take a genius to figure what will happen when Ernesto meets his maker.

That’s my fear.

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Calnago
Posts: 5316
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Ha... since we're all guessing, here's my two cents as to what we'll see...
Basically a C60 with a seatpost/seatcluster arrangement very similar to the current V2-R. Aside from reworking the tubes a bit to fit into the seatcluster area, I foresee no dramatic changes in tube dimensions etc. And for what it's worth, I really don't like the look of a 27.2mm seatpost poking out of relatively fat tubes. Looks unbalanced to me. The C60 is a fine riding bike; it's not harsh, at least not for us bigger guys. They'll keep the fat downtube, etc. with similar if not identical chainstays, and both the downtube and chainstays will join the BB as it is now, with no changes to the Threadfit system either. Perhaps a modification to the dropouts will happen but I'm only saying that because @Nestornnk seems to know that as a certainty. And if they do change the dropouts I sure hope they give the reasoning behind it; mostly because I just like to know. The fork will now be drilled for Direct Mount brakes as standard (more on that next). And they'll give a bit more clearance both front and rear, for tires as big as 28mm. Not that they need to, but because that's what the market seems to want. Other than that, change all the zeros in the "C60" to a "4" and call it good. And as I said, that's just what I "think" it's going to be... I have no more concrete info than anyone else, and clearly less than some of you.

But a word on DM brakes. I don't think they're one bit better than the best standard mount brakes. Take the newest Shimano 9100 standard mount brakes and compare them side by side the newest Shimano DM brakes. They both can accommodate 28mm tires, plenty large enough for a nice road bike. In fact, I'd give the nod to the standard mounts, for their simplicity and ease of setup. They certainly seem to me to be every bit as "stiff" as the DM brakes having pulled back and forth on both of them with my hands. So, what's the point really. If you really need clearance for 30+mm tires, then you should be going straight to a disc braked bike anyway.

I think what happened here is a case of trying to anticipate where the market is going... they made a horrendous mistake doing this with introduction of the V1-R, by placing the brakes under the chainstays and behind the BB. Ugh!... I remember at the time thinking big mistake and said so. I think they thought that was the trend and they had to follow it. That very same year, Trek abandons that brake placement and introduces the Emonda with brakes back where they should be. Ouch... dumb ideas should not be copied... but the whole industry is in such a tail chasing circle right now, who knows where things will end up. And the newest Shimano standard mount brakes are relatively new... the development timeline for the new C60 was already well underway. A judgement call on their part I think... do we assume that all rim brakes going forward will be DM brakes? And I think that's what they did. Again, another change that I don't think offers any performance advantage, but it's a change. It's hard to know which tail to chase. Woof Woof.

SRAM is just letting the whole direct mount brake thing go the wayside, aren't they? I don't follow them as closely as I do Shimano and Campy. And I think that's wise in their case. I think the rim brake market is already well served (although Campy is behind as their skeleton brakes need an update. As a minimum Campagnolo needs to match the clearance offered by Shimanos latest 9100 calipers). I just don't see the benefit in pursuing DM brakes at all at this point. Becasue the main advantage they might offer (a "bit" more clearance), is just blown out of the water by disc brakes. I still don't want to see rim brakes go the wayside, as I still prefer them and have no desire to run 30mm tires on my road bikes. But the two can coexist, I think there is a valid market for both rim braked bikes and disc braked bikes. But I don't believe we need another standard of rim brake at this point... please. Let discs evolve, and let the rim brakes reside where they always have been, through a single hole in the fork or a rear brake bridge. They work, and the frame doesn't get messed up. I cringe when tightening down direct mount brakes wondering at what point the threads are going to be trashed, and then so is the frame. That's never happened with standard mounts. Why mess with a good thing when there is negligible benefit.

So, I guess if they just want to offer Direct Mount brakes, then that's ok... Campy does have DM brakes that offer more clearance over their standard mounts, but having worked on them, I still prefer the standard mount brake offerings more. I'd much rather see a revised standard mount skeleton brake from Campagnolo that matches Shimano's clearance. Unfortunately, I'm sure Campagnolo's resources for development of new products are stretched to the max at the moment.

Ok, maybe I gave about 5cents worth... don't put much stock in it... just fun to play the game.
Last edited by Calnago on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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TonyM
Posts: 1717
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

shipley wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:49 pm
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:46 pm
(...)Thinking is Giant is giving them technical help on lowering the frame weight.
This is what I understood also in the cooperation agreement between Colnago and Giant.
Definitely not bad for Colnago and Giant hope to be the first in line if Colnago sells the brand oneday...
Hmm, and given number 1 son was the ‘brains’ behind outsourcing some production to the Far East it doesn’t take a genius to figure what will happen when Ernesto meets his maker.

That’s my fear.
Yepp that’s the plan of Giant...

And my fear also.

When Ernesto is gone I am sure that his son will at least go much further into the cooperation agreement with Giant. Or even sell 49% of Colnago, or even more....

Zakalwe
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

Things that interest me: lighter weight, rounder tube shapes possibly

Things that don’t interest me: DM brakes, sloping geo only, non standard seat tube profiles, nonsense Seatpost clamps

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

my thinking about what i'm reading is that these changes would be me excited about a c64 if i was a new purchase , but as a upgrade its awfully hard to justify. a little jealous of those contemplate their first colnago c-line, but to spend thousands of dollars just for bigger tires or 6 ounces of frame savings doesn't make much sense to me. i do suspect i'll be tempted though.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

nestornnk
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

by nestornnk

Concerning the rumours that Giant is a shareholder i asked them a couple of times when i was at the factory and they denied it.
In my opinion Colnago while it is a "small" company,they have a nice profit margin and makes no sense to sell any part of shares.

Mr Colnago is always deeply involved in the daily business and in the development of new models.Unfortunately i am not speaking Italian so while a translator was always used,it was clear that his passion and dedication is second to none

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micky
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Location: Vicenza
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by micky

One of their main engineers, Davide Fumagalli, denied it on the italian forum (he oftens reads WW as well).

MRM
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:15 pm

by MRM

So maybe it's an e-bike instead? :mrgreen:

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TonyM
Posts: 1717
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

MRM wrote:So maybe it's an e-bike instead? :mrgreen:
A few months ago I would have laughed....but after Pinarello introduced their electric road bike....

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

read this on another site, but it sounds very apt. the c-64 sounds like a blend of the c-59 & the c-60
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

TheCyclingViking
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 pm

by TheCyclingViking

I’ve spoken to my LBS (authorised dealer) today.

This photo caused colnago untold problems. C64 was the best kept secret until this went viral. Now all of the presentation plans have been scuppered and a rush presentation is now planned for 9th Feb.

The lugs are meant to be different as they need to house a different down tube. The head tube has been made longer and the seat post is now more akin to the V2. Interestingly they claim to have reduced the weight and is considerably lighter.

Plans are for a release in June with 4 colour schemes to kick things off.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

TheCyclingViking wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:42 pm
I’ve spoken to my LBS (authorised dealer) today.

This photo caused colnago untold problems. C64 was the best kept secret until this went viral. Now all of the presentation plans have been scuppered and a rush presentation is now planned for 9th Feb.

The lugs are meant to be different as they need to house a different down tube. The head tube has been made longer and the seat post is now more akin to the V2. Interestingly they claim to have reduced the weight and is considerably lighter.

Plans are for a release in June with 4 colour schemes to kick things off.
this doesn't make sense. they indicated a feb 9th announcement before the kerfuffle.

and the bike comes off as described as a cross between the previous c-59 and the current c-60. this just isn't my take, i read it elsewhere and the description seems to fit
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

TheCyclingViking
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 pm

by TheCyclingViking

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:47 pm
TheCyclingViking wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:42 pm
I’ve spoken to my LBS (authorised dealer) today.

This photo caused colnago untold problems. C64 was the best kept secret until this went viral. Now all of the presentation plans have been scuppered and a rush presentation is now planned for 9th Feb.

The lugs are meant to be different as they need to house a different down tube. The head tube has been made longer and the seat post is now more akin to the V2. Interestingly they claim to have reduced the weight and is considerably lighter.

Plans are for a release in June with 4 colour schemes to kick things off.
this doesn't make sense. they indicated a feb 9th announcement before the kerfuffle.

and the bike comes off as described as a cross between the previous c-59 and the current c-60. this just isn't my take, i read it elsewhere and the description seems to fit

Just passing on what I was told. We'll see in a matter of days how accurate the info is which, I’m inclined to believe.

by Weenie


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