Campagnolo SR Front Derailleur vs. Carbonice Chaincatcher

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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mortirolo
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by mortirolo

I've dropped a chain (when I used Rotor oval q-ring) once in the last 30 years.
I've never owned a chain catcher, but my new frame is maybe too expensive for me, so I bought a Carbonice Chaincatcher.

I'm affraid it isn't Campagnolo SR compatible, because the Front Derailleur Mounting Bolt (Titanium FD-RE014) is integrated (maybe by heat) with Captive Washer.

So I can't use campagnolo SR concave washer with Carbonice "Stummer Eugen" alu screw.

Some options:
-I cut the campagnolo titanium screw with dremmel (isn't a sophisticated solution) and drill the titanium washer for the alu screw (larger diameter).
-I buy a campagnolo steel FD-VL102 Mounting Bolt With Captive Washer and cut the scew...
-I heat up the washer and try to press out the titanium screw. (I have heat gun and 26KN :x mechanical press.)
-I buy a concave washer from other brand, like Far and Near...
...

Can You offer a better solution, please?

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Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria

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4ibanez
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by 4ibanez

Buy a new ti or alu bolt. Keep the original for if you ever decide to sell the FD.

by Weenie


AJS914
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by AJS914

He has the longer bolt. He needs the concave washer.

Personally, I would dig through my box of old parts and probably scavenge one off of an old 9 or 10 speed derailleur. Maybe you could do this at your LBS?

Or, just cut it and forget resale value. Do you tend to resell stuff or ride it until replaced?

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4ibanez
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by 4ibanez

Ah yeh not paying enough attention. I'd use a spare washer as suggested with the black alu bolt. You could try and remove the captive washer, but no idea how they're mated. If you're not precious I'd try and twist it off with some pliers.

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jekyll man
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by jekyll man

Or try a different braze on hanger?
Official cafe stop tester

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mortirolo
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by mortirolo

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:18 pm
He has the longer bolt. He needs the concave washer.

Personally, I would dig through my box of old parts and probably scavenge one off of an old 9 or 10 speed derailleur. Maybe you could do this at your LBS?

Or, just cut it and forget resale value. Do you tend to resell stuff or ride it until replaced?
I need a concave washer like steel campagnolo FD-VL10.
The Titanium FD-RE014 is too expensive (20EUR< That is more than the price of carbonice chain catcher...).
I will find it in LBS or other place, so I can fix it easily I think, but isn't my real problem:

I bought SR front Derailleur with titanium bolt and washer and a high class? Chaincatcher and I can't use it?
If I know the chaincather isn't compatible with campagnolo, than I can make a decision.
I buy it and make some unprofessional, costly diy project or I don't buy it.
So I'am not a satisfied customer.
I'am not a beta tester, I'am just a mechanical engineer. Sorry, but It's difficult to understand in my profession.
Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria

joejack951
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by joejack951

Those washers are designed to fit standard braze-on tabs so any concave FD washer will work. I have a bunch of Shimano ones in my parts bins and will happily send you one. But I will add that you are making this into a much bigger problem than it really is. Cut your bolt and drill the washer or find another. Your chain catcher is hardly incompatible with your parts. And I have to question why Campy decided to make that washer captive. It serves no purpose.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

If it was a "high class" chaincatcher they would have provided an appropriate mounting washer with it. I can't see the backside of the chaincatcher but I presume it is flat. Accordingly it needs a flat surface to mount against. So one side of the washer needs to be flat and the other side (next to the braze-on) needs to be concave. K-Edge provides a very good example of this with their chain catchers. So, as a minimum, you need a different type of washer and mounting bolt than the one off of the stock bolt. If the backside of that chaincatcher is actually concave, then it is designed to be mounted directly to the braze-on, but I don't think that is as good as having a proper washer with more surface area to spread the load.

The concave washer on the stock bolt is fixed so that it doesn't get lost and someone then attempts using any kind of normal washer or no washer at all even. It ensures that the force is distributed evenly over the braze-on tap and not just at one tangential moment on the curved surface of the braze-on.

Lastly, I would return that chain catcher, if you can, or throw it away if you can't. Get one that can be adjusted independently of the derialleur mounting bolt, otherwise you end up trying to get both the front derailleur and chain catcher perfectly aligned all at once. And you'd have to be doing this with the chain on, cables attached, with the chain on the largest rear cog. When you mount the front derailleur you want to ensure that it is perfectly aligned with the chain rings (it really is one of the most critical steps in the setup of the current drive trains), and that is much harder to do with the chain getting in all kinds of the way AND having to worry about whether your chain catcher is also perfectly adjusted at the same time.

RyanH
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by RyanH


Calnago wrote:
Lastly, I would return that chain catcher, if you can, or throw it away if you can't. Get one that can be adjusted independently of the derialleur mounting bolt, otherwise you end up trying to get both the front derailleur and chain catcher perfectly aligned all at once.

This. A chain catcher needs to be as close to the chain as possible and trying to do that and keep you FD dialed in will probably be a nightmare. How much does the carbon ice catcher weigh? The sram one is pretty well though out (probably cause they couldn't figure out how to make a FD that doesn't drop chains left and right) and is only 8g or so.
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mortirolo
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by mortirolo

joejack951 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:39 pm
Those washers are designed to fit standard braze-on tabs so any concave FD washer will work. I have a bunch of Shimano ones in my parts bins and will happily send you one. But I will add that you are making this into a much bigger problem than it really is. Cut your bolt and drill the washer or find another. Your chain catcher is hardly incompatible with your parts. And I have to question why Campy decided to make that washer captive. It serves no purpose.

"But I will add that you are making this into a much bigger problem than it really is.
I wrote: "I can fix it easily I think, but isn't my real problem"

Cut your bolt and drill the washer or find another."
I can make it, but why must do it to another costumer too?

"And I have to question why Campy decided to make that washer captive."
I don't know. Because they can?
They have own chaincacher (SRAM, ROTOR too) so maybe they want to sell those.

Carbonice don't sell too much front derailleur, so maybe they need make some compatibility check on Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo (99.9% of market, inc. Rotor and FSA 99.99999%) front derailleur, I think.
Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria

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mortirolo
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by mortirolo

RyanH wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:36 pm
Calnago wrote:
Lastly, I would return that chain catcher, if you can, or throw it away if you can't. Get one that can be adjusted independently of the derialleur mounting bolt, otherwise you end up trying to get both the front derailleur and chain catcher perfectly aligned all at once.

This. A chain catcher needs to be as close to the chain as possible and trying to do that and keep you FD dialed in will probably be a nightmare. How much does the carbon ice catcher weigh? The sram one is pretty well though out (probably cause they couldn't figure out how to make a FD that doesn't drop chains left and right) and is only 8g or so.
SRAM RED Chain Catcher Chain Spotter Catcher
Weight: 12 g (17 g including accessories)

Carbonice: 5g

5g vs. 17g and same price
Are we weightweenies? :)
Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria

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mortirolo
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:08 am
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by mortirolo

Calnago wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:16 pm
If it was a "high class" chaincatcher they would have provided an appropriate mounting washer with it. I can't see the backside of the chaincatcher but I presume it is flat. Accordingly it needs a flat surface to mount against. So one side of the washer needs to be flat and the other side (next to the braze-on) needs to be concave. K-Edge provides a very good example of this with their chain catchers. So, as a minimum, you need a different type of washer and mounting bolt than the one off of the stock bolt. If the backside of that chaincatcher is actually concave, then it is designed to be mounted directly to the braze-on, but I don't think that is as good as having a proper washer with more surface area to spread the load.

The concave washer on the stock bolt is fixed so that it doesn't get lost and someone then attempts using any kind of normal washer or no washer at all even. It ensures that the force is distributed evenly over the braze-on tap and not just at one tangential moment on the curved surface of the braze-on.

Lastly, I would return that chain catcher, if you can, or throw it away if you can't. Get one that can be adjusted independently of the derialleur mounting bolt, otherwise you end up trying to get both the front derailleur and chain catcher perfectly aligned all at once. And you'd have to be doing this with the chain on, cables attached, with the chain on the largest rear cog. When you mount the front derailleur you want to ensure that it is perfectly aligned with the chain rings (it really is one of the most critical steps in the setup of the current drive trains), and that is much harder to do with the chain getting in all kinds of the way AND having to worry about whether your chain catcher is also perfectly adjusted at the same time.
:exactly:
You're absolutely right.

I know the adjusting will be complex. I have enough time.
(Campagnolo, K-edge, Sram, Rotor... far better), but carbonice nicer and lighter.
Marco Pantani - Momenti Di Gloria

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I've never used a chain catcher or needed one. I say return this bling, bling chain catcher and live dangerously.

Put some helicopter tape on your expensive new frame to protect it.

mattr
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by mattr

RyanH wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:36 pm
A chain catcher needs to be as close to the chain as possible and trying to do that and keep you FD dialed in will probably be a nightmare.
Nah, flip the bike round, or at least move it so you have easy access from both sides and it's a doddle.
Literally a 10 second job to get it aligned. Front mech still works perfectly.

by Weenie


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4ibanez
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by 4ibanez

I'd probably use a carbon catcher if someone gave me one. But like you I don't remember ever shifting past the small ring. I agree this is WW - if you want to use one, may as well be a 5g one.

Setting up a standard FD like SR surely isn't that hard even if you have to align a chain catcher as well - do it. I can only speak for Sram Red and Ultegra, but if you're shifting the chain off with something as solid as that on standard rings then it's 100% a setup error. Red for me was nothing less than perfection.

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