Living with Discs - Feedback and Opinions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Conza
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by Conza

slippy wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:37 pm
Conza wrote:
slippy wrote:Boiling oil that left me without a front brake on a descent.
:shock: . What. Like it was 40C and so they were real hot and stopped working? :o
I was riding on a very rocky forest trail and I was braking a lot, this is on a gravel bike so rather unstable and I as a rider didn't feel very confident. Eventually I saw smoke coming from the piston and the brake lever touched the bar with no braking. Heat must've made a seal pop and the oil leaked I guess.

To conclude, it happened due to bad braking technique in terrain the bike wasn't made for, but still...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Edit:
Weather was sunny and around 20degrees celcius, so that's a non factor
Oh right. Got a ride coming up with lots of climbing (and descending on the brakes). Typically 40C day, so had me worried there. :lol:
It's all about the adventure :o .

by Weenie


L3X
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:39 pm

by L3X

Living with discs, the main points I'd consider points of attention (not headaches really):
-Every now and then check if rotors are true
-When working on your bike, make sure the rotors/pads don't get contaminated with whatever substance
-Properly brake in the pads/rotors, sharply improves performance and reduces pad wear

For people new to disc brakes the bleeding might be a bit daunting a first, however it's no rocket science at all and there are lots of examples on YouTube to show you how this is done properly. If you're working with DOT oil make sure you clean if off properly when getting in contact with your skin.

kode54
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:14 am
I've had multiple issues on most disc brake bikes I've had: squealing brake pads, vibrating brake pads, trouble centering the brake pads/rubbing, trouble getting pistons to retract...

I think part of it is the learning curve. Once you tackle all these kinds of issues and learn to bleed your system you will probably mostly be fine. It's just not as simple as rim brakes, that's for sure, and I haven't embraced all this maintenance.

I'm at the point that I have to embrace it this winter. Both on my MTB and my gravel bike, one brake has gone flat over the summer so I have to do a bleed. I'll probably need some new pads as well.

I wouldn't trade discs for rim brakes especially for the MTB or gravel bike.
next time you center a caliper over the disc...use a business card folded in half...loosen the caliper, squeeze the lever, then tighten the caliper bolts. that gives you an even space between the rotor and the brake pads. if you're squealing like its out of round...you may need to straighten out your rotor.

yes, its a learning curve. no doubt.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 3.4 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Independent Fabrication Ti FLW + DA9100 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

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TonyM
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by TonyM

ergott wrote:I use Shimano centerlock rotors and don't get any brake rub (thru axle). The only real annoyance is they are loud when it's full on wet out. They howl unless you brake enough to really dry them off. On flat terrain (coming to a stop light etc) they don't get a chance to heat up.

Love them otherwise.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Which rotors and which disc brake pads do you use?

(I had the same problem with the Dura Ace Icetech rotors and the resin brake pads and I was told to use the metallic brake lads when raining)

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

The things you have to learn are how to allign calipers, true rotors, and work out a sticky piston. I knew my dad would never get those and would always be riding with some rub so I got him rim brakes that he knows how to adjust (old dog, new tricks).

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ergott
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by ergott

TonyM wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Which rotors and which disc brake pads do you use?

(I had the same problem with the Dura Ace Icetech rotors and the resin brake pads and I was told to use the metallic brake lads when raining)
I'm using 785 stuff with Ice Tech rotors. I used Shimano organic (came with them) and now I'm using Swiss Stop Exotherms. Funny enough I went on their site to double check which ones I have and there's a recall!! Gotta take care of that :shock:

The stock Shimano pads did howl. In more hilly terrain it was easier to heat them up enough to be dry and more quiet.

RyanH
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by RyanH

Has anyone found the bikes to ride differently than their rim braked bikes? Extra carbon layup to reinforce certain areas and longer chainstays could possibly affect handling and ride qualities. Or, is it something that you notice when you flip between bikes but by mid-ride no longer notice it?
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

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Miller
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by Miller

RyanH wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:57 am
For those that are on disc bikes, is the grass greener on the other side?
Interesting question that many will be considering. I have a new disc bike based on a Gotobike B36 frame. That's flatmount discs, thru-axles, good clearances. I'm enjoying a few spin-off aspects of it being a disc bike. I am liking the clearance for 28mm or wider, it's just as quick as any narrower tyre while feeling more robust than those and giving a better ride quality due to lower pressures. The look is very clean with hidden cables and uncluttered wheel clearance. The chassis generally feels rigid and is great for out of the saddle efforts. I love riding this bike. I can't see myself getting another rim brake road bike.

Edit to catch up with RyanH question: yes, it does ride differently, in a very positive way. The bike feels fast, capable and secure.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

ergott wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:32 pm
TonyM wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Which rotors and which disc brake pads do you use?

(I had the same problem with the Dura Ace Icetech rotors and the resin brake pads and I was told to use the metallic brake lads when raining)
I'm using 785 stuff with Ice Tech rotors. I used Shimano organic (came with them) and now I'm using Swiss Stop Exotherms. Funny enough I went on their site to double check which ones I have and there's a recall!! Gotta take care of that :shock:

The stock Shimano pads did howl. In more hilly terrain it was easier to heat them up enough to be dry and more quiet.
I contacted Swissstop for their recommendation concerning rainy weather and they told me to wait 1-2 weeks for the release of their Disc RS:
http://www.swissstop.com/en/brakepads/d ... 4/disc-rs/
http://www.swissstop.com/en/tech/compounds/disc-rs/

At the moment I have the Shimano metal but I did not biked in the rain lately so I don't know.
I will definitely try the Swissstop RS later in the saison.

dcorn
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm

by dcorn

I've been riding my Crux with Rival 1 hydros on the road since my Tarmac went down for service in April. I've intermixed that with mountain singletrack, gravel, and recently a few CX races. I've swapped between two wheelsets and haven't touched the brakes at all, other than bedding in the rotors on the new discs when I got the 2nd set of wheels. Still have stock pads even. No adjustments on the calipers or levers, no pad rubbing when riding. I'm not a lightweight at ~210 lbs, so I've put the brakes through their paces on some fast descents and very hard stops. We have a couple local roads with very steep hills ending in T intersections, so I'm talking slamming on the brakes from 45mph to a dead stop and you can smell the burning pads.

My next road bike will be a disc bike, no sense in riding rim brakes anymore when all the high end bikes are about to have disc models available.

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ergott
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by ergott

TonyM wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:45 pm
I contacted Swissstop for their recommendation concerning rainy weather and they told me to wait 1-2 weeks for the release of their Disc RS:
http://www.swissstop.com/en/brakepads/d ... 4/disc-rs/
http://www.swissstop.com/en/tech/compounds/disc-rs/
Good to know, thanks!

jfranci3
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

My observations:
1) Rub, especially with mechanical discs is an issue. Best options here are TRP brakes.
2) .5mm makes a difference, so calipers need to be re-centered between wheelset changes. It's best to shim the disc if you can find shims - 6bolt is easier to find shims for. For AFS/Centerlock (same thing), I used the washer that was on my stock wheelset.
3) Pads and rotors foul easily. Have a bottle of 70%+ alcohol around to clean, also bake them in the oven every once in a while to burn oils.
4) If you only ride in the dry, it's not worth it. It is worth it for endurance/gravel bikes where you have different tire/wheelsets. It is worth it off pavement. It is worth it in the wet. I
5) New rounded edge UCI rotors are easier to mount in the rear. Otherwise, there is very little difference in rotors aside from aesthetics.
6) In high grip, hard braking situations, the fork can vibrate/chatter. Through bolts and 9mm/10mm skewers can help here. Otherwise, they are not a big concern.
7) Disc brakes are more sensitive to exact tightness of the skewer/bolts. Bolts seem to be better here.
8) Thru bolt introduce a conversion issues, especially for proprietary hub wheelsets. I've spent hours looking for a 9mm/10mm ends for my unlabeled wheelset, ultimately finding a alibaba vendor.

Delorre
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Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

by Delorre

RyanH wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:35 pm
Has anyone found the bikes to ride differently than their rim braked bikes? Extra carbon layup to reinforce certain areas and longer chainstays could possibly affect handling and ride qualities. Or, is it something that you notice when you flip between bikes but by mid-ride no longer notice it?
From a practical point of view, I think almost everything has already been mentionned here in this topic, except hydro cable rattle inside the frame (still have to solve it with mine) that can be hard to get rid of. You have to learn a few new maintenance and setup skills,but then, you are good to go. For ride characteristics and handling, I think it comes down to every manifacturer being a little diferent and it depend of what you compare to what:

As I wrote in an other topic:

even if you don't go really slower with a 400gr weight penalty, depending on weight distribution, the extra weight can very well be felt in the way the bike behaves and reacts to power / steering inputs. I have 3 bike to compare:

Scott Addict rim brake, 6.35 kg
Scott Addict disc , 6.65 kg : thx to the fairly light disc wheels + light DA hydro shifters, calipers and rotorst, the weight on the top of the bike is similar to the rim brake version ==> almost no diff in ride feel.
Canyon Endurace, 6.9kg : despite the same light wheels, but due to the really heafty 785 levers, more heavy calipers and rotors, you really feel the extra weight when rocking the bike from side to side.

To elaborate a little more between both Addict's : they are very comparable in setup and specs (see sig), weight is less than 400gr difference, geo is almost identical, only 5mm higher headtube due to longer fork and 5mm longer stays. For the rest, identical. Ride position is spot on the same, and all I can say, is that the ride is also very similar (see also reasons above). The longer stays don't make any difference, both bike are really stiff, the new one maybe a little more. None of both is really compliant, but the disc one isn't harsher than the rim version. The only real difference I feel, and I had the seem feeling with the Canyon (but way, way worse), is the disc bike seems to be affected more by sidewind, turbulances of other vehicules etc. Both Addicts have 35mm deep wheels, the Bora's even more old school V, but the disc version is not as stable and planted as the rim version. Don't know why, but the rim brake version is almost immune to side winds and turbulances. With the disc version, I have to be more focused to go completely straight in side winds. A little weird, a very, very little disapointing, but way better than the Canyon 8)

My goal is to use the disc version all year around and to keep the rim brake version as back-up / spare. Time will tell if that is gonna happen. I hope to have rideable weather again, so I compare both bike a little more, and most of all, put some serious miles on the disc one. 500km is not enough to really make up my mind.

jfranci3
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

RyanH wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:35 pm
Has anyone found the bikes to ride differently than their rim braked bikes? Extra carbon layup to reinforce certain areas and longer chainstays could possibly affect handling and ride qualities. Or, is it something that you notice when you flip between bikes but by mid-ride no longer notice it?
Disc brake wheelsets have ~4 more more spokes and slightly less material on the rim edge. The spokes would be the only thing you notice. There typically is no difference in wheelbase/chainstay length. If you hit the brakes hard while turning, you'll feel a bit of steering input to the left more than you would with rim brakes before you'd fall in either case.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

RyanH wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:35 pm
Has anyone found the bikes to ride differently than their rim braked bikes? Extra carbon layup to reinforce certain areas and longer chainstays could possibly affect handling and ride qualities. Or, is it something that you notice when you flip between bikes but by mid-ride no longer notice it?
I don’t notice a damn thing, but I ride 25mm tubeless at 60/70psi. My chainstays are 410mm and within a couple of mm of the shortest rim brake bikes which take 28-30mm tires.

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