The Secret Pro - The best bikes are Spesh, Trek, Canyon and BMC

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Shrike
Posts: 1133
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

"As for the bikes themselves, the common knowledge is that Specialized, Trek, Canyon, and BMC are a step above everyone else. Sure Giant, Bianchi, Cervelo, and Pinarello are great, but when it comes down to millimetres, a brilliant bike can make all the difference."

In today's CyclingTips, Secret Pro article.

What you think, is that really the professional consensus? :P

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/secret- ... ikes-ride/

diegogarcia
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

If this is real, the interesting part is that Giant make frames for TREK, Canyon and Pinarello though we all realise that the lay up, design is bespoke etc.

The TCR SL frames did well at this years tour mopping up the spotted and green jersey.

I do remember years back when Boonen said he was glad to see the back of Merckx frames, and started winning again in Specialized.
Last edited by diegogarcia on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


spud
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

I think the pros who rate this stuff are probably not very analytical about it, the rating is more of a popularity contest. That said, I'm a little surprised that Canyon would land on this list, given quality problems I've read about periodically. Not to cast shade on them, I'm sure they are fine, just not preeminent. But I'd sooner have a Giant than a Canyon.

diegogarcia
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

Furthermore, the word in Europe is that Giant are propping up Canyon akin to when Merida bailed out / save Specialized many years ago with the 49 / 51% stake in the business sold by M S to ensure the brand survived.

mike001100
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:26 am

by mike001100

How can anyone believe that? What is best? Like the Venge is brutally stiff for no good reason IMO... whatever. BS.

Mr.Gib
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Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

When you get the point where the bikes are all so close in stiffness, weight, geometry, aero, etc., it is simply not possible for there to be a real world advantage for any one brand over another. An very un-pro like statement from the secret pro.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

They aren’t necessarily that close in frame geometry.

Examples:

Code: Select all

55.5cm stack, 38.1cm reach - Trek Emonda SLR H2

55.1cm stack, 38.7cm reach - Cannondale SuperSix Evo
55.0cm stack, 38.6cm reach - BMC Teammachine SLR01
55.0cm stack, 38.6cm reach - Pinarello Dogma F10 
54.8cm stack, 38.9cm reach - Scott Addict SL
54.8cm stack, 38.3cm reach - Lapierre Xelius SL
54.8cm stack, 38.0cm reach - Cervélo R5
54.7cm stack, 38.4cm reach - (55cm trad.) Colnago C60 
54.6cm stack, 38.5cm reach - Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
54.5cm stack, 38.8cm reach - (55cm) Bianchi Specialissima 
54.5cm stack, 38.3cm reach - Giant TCR Advanced SL 
54.4cm stack, 38.4cm reach - S-Works Tarmac 
54.3cm stack, 38.8cm reach - (52cm) Merida Scultura
54.2cm stack, 38.4cm reach - Ridley Helium SLX
54.2cm stack, 38.4cm reach - Factor O2

52.6cm stack, 39.0cm reach - Trek Emonda SLR H1

52.0cm stack, 39.0cm reach - Argon 18 Gallium Pro (!!!)
Note this is just reach/stack. Handling traits like head-angle, rake/trail, chainstay length, BB drop, tire clearance vary enough to be quite noticeable. BB stiffness difference between best and worst are also noticeable in the sense that noodly BBs can result in drivetrain rasping in specific cases.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3063
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Stack and reach? Really? C'mon man, it's common knowledge (or should be) that simply dictates spacers and stem length and angle. And besides - those numbers are mostly damn close. Head angle and fork rake are more relevant and yet equally have next to no influence on how fast a bike is and will also be nearly the same on all bikes.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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TonyM
Posts: 1815
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

That secret Pro is a joke sometimes!

Certainly good points that he makes and some insight in the Pro peloton but some parts are just too funny....

for example: "Did you know Powerbars turn to rocks when it gets a bit cold? Good luck trying to eat them while racing the classics"
Solution: just take the bar which is close to your body in the jersey's pocket and not on the outside!

He needs some more experience.... :noidea:


or

"Did Froome take an extra big dose knowingly? It would be a strange thing to do. As the leader of the race, he was sure to get tested. Therefore, knowingly taking something that is easy to detect would be kind of crazy. I don’t know if you’ve met Froome, but he’s not crazy. "

Well well L. Amstrong was also not crazy.


Anyway interesting to read if you can take the good/ true and just ignore the rest or read it as a joke...

hannawald
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

These brands have premium bikes for sure, but I really not convinced that Venge Vias is better bike than Scott Foil for example..

Vermu
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am

by Vermu

hannawald wrote:These brands have premium bikes for sure, but I really not convinced that Venge Vias is better bike than Scott Foil for example..
Comparing big S and Scott is a bit :roll: just because there's only one team using Scott and tons on S.
Although on those specialized sponsored teams, who are actually using venge vias :lol: Sagan pulled of few marketing stunts and I reckon Kittel is only one that is actually using it on stages (and winning).

On the pro side IMO (like I would really know) they see other things on bike that we, the mere mortals or test power house Tour.

hannawald
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

I am sure there must be many people here, who have ridden both Tarmac and F8/F10.. from what I can see on TV and independent test, I would take F10...it´s aero qualities are proved to be among the best and when you look at Froome going down the hill, it seems that its handling must be all right:)

I rate Scott Foil higher than Canyon Endurace, but it´s not in the same cathegory. But from the aero test Scott equals to Venge Vias, is a lighter bike and comfortable enogh to be used in classics..

And if money is no deciding factor I would take Oltre XR4 from all these bikes:)

sawyer
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Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

spud wrote:I think the pros who rate this stuff are probably not very analytical about it, the rating is more of a popularity contest. That said, I'm a little surprised that Canyon would land on this list, given quality problems I've read about periodically. Not to cast shade on them, I'm sure they are fine, just not preeminent. But I'd sooner have a Giant than a Canyon.
Hi - I've owned three Giants and two Canyons and IME would rather have a Canyon

TBH though it's pretty obvious the performance differences are so slim / non-existent that this whole thing are largely a matter of subjective preference.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

sawyer
Posts: 4472
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

diegogarcia wrote:Furthermore, the word in Europe is that Giant are propping up Canyon akin to when Merida bailed out / save Specialized many years ago with the 49 / 51% stake in the business sold by M S to ensure the brand survived.
If true, it certainly won't be through lack of demand for Canyon. They have grown hugely. Perhaps they needed investment or some other support for their expansion
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

by Weenie


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Rick
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

There is probably a reason that the "Secret Pro" remains secret and publishes on "Cycling Tips" website.

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