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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:54 pm 
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uraz wrote:
18T ratchet is fine unless you have to change gear (which btw. you do quite often on a road bike)


I'm not defending DT, but what does changing gears have to do with it? It's not like you stop pedaling to change gears.

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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:54 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
I race on those (nationals, ITA UDACE)
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... 66t-33215/

One of the best wheels i have - hub is DT 240 (at that time also try LW- they were not as fast- only stiffer sand comfort more)
They didnt slow me down :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
Bitex ED (190g rear) is like plasticfantastic with its small DS bearing. Oterwise Bitey are OK (not for rain rides)

You have also Aivee hubs

Dt swiss
Hope
White Ind
Extralite
Onyx
Tune
.............

what are you looking for

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:18 pm 
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ergott wrote:
I'm not defending DT, but what does changing gears have to do with it? It's not like you stop pedaling to change gears.


I'm not changing gears under load if I don't have to, and this is all you need to disengage a freewheel (even when you don't stop pedalling). Any drop in power/cadence is sufficient to feel how 18T ratchet works.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:43 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
And the dt road hubs will give a rear wheel that is laterally less stiff than the a wheel with the other hubs so that's the trade off you have made.


I can speak to this first hand since I went through a series of rear wheels built around Enve 3.4 rims to tackle just this issue.

I started out with the stock wheel built by Enve with 240s hubs and CX-Ray spokes - very flexy.
Next came a set of White T11 hubs with Sapim CX-Sprint spokes. Better flange geo and thicker aero spokes - still pretty flexy.
Next came a set of 240s hubs built with Sapim Race DB spokes. - "sub-optimal' flange geo with thickest spokes of the lot - much better lateral rigidity.
- both the second set and the third set were built by the same wheelbuilder.

So, based on my own experimentation, greater spoke mass can more than overcome any slight disadvantage that comes from sub-optimal rear hub geo. I get no flex that I can detect at the distance I keep my brake pads with the Race spoked wheel. I do get a good bit of flex with the T11/CX-Sprint rear wheel such that I have to loosen off my brake. I am finding that thicker round spokes can greatly stiffen up a rear wheel laterally with a hub that has a rep of not delivering laterally stiff rear wheels. I care not one bit about any aero losses in the rear from using round vs aero spokes. The air is so muddied by the time it gets there that I don't think it makes any difference at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Yes thicker spokes help but if you had used a hub with better geometry you could have used thinner spokes. I like cheap but heavy for we, miche hubs because if you put aside the tension balance and you should you get a latterly stiff wheel in which the nds spoke dont loose tension and that's why the lower tension balance is irrelevent.

Others other issues with dt hubs like the inaccessible ds rear bearing is another reason why I don't like them.

For a weight weenie hub I quite like the carbon ti hubs but they have been revised to improve tension balance but at the expense of lateral stiffness. Still they allow a stiff rear wheel with thin spokes and a 40mm deep carbon rim.

One of my favourite hubs is the miche super type or the cheaper SWR as it has a 49mm nds flange to centre of hub. Quite low nds spoke tension but a very stiff rear wheel so it seems to work quite well. I have been testing a couple of sets built with pacenti sl23 v1 rims and 50mm deep carbon rims and I cant find fault. Deeper rims obviously are better for a hub like this but it shows thinking outside conventional wisdom can surprise you in pleasant ways. I run both wheels tubeless too. What led me to using this hub was I built a prototype carbon 50mm deep wheelset to see if these worked well and I deliberately set the nds spoke tension low. With tubeless tyres it is very low as I wanted to see how long the spokes would last. 10,000+ miles of racing and training on them I am still waiting for a spoke failure( I am 85+kg as well dressed) . So I think with a sufficiently stiff wheel, as this is, low nds spoke tension is not an issue. As it happens spoke tension with much super type or SWR hubs is higher when the wheel is tensioned right so there is no problem at all. The other thing that gives me confidence is miche have a wheel torture jug in the dungeon. A rear wheel is driven by a motor while loaded with 50kg and is side loaded every few second. The wheel is run like that till it fails. Miche have minimum time a wheel must run for.

While you don't have to use a hub like that to have a good wheel I think it is best to look beyond the brand name to the specification of the hub and its geometry.

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Last edited by bm0p700f on Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Location: Slovenia---that forest land
nice info

clinchers or tubulars 3.4enve?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:20 pm 
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I have a wheelset with 240 and 18T and another wheelset with 240 and 36T and honestly for road use I don‘t see the need for the 36T.

I suppose for MTB with technical courses the 36T could be a significant advantage.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Try 54T for some time and than switch back to standard 18T. You will feel the difference right away.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:15 pm 
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uraz wrote:
Try 54T for some time and than switch back to standard 18T. You will feel the difference right away.


Yes! I can feel the difference between the 18T and the standard 36T of my new DT Swiss ERC 1100 Dicut on the road.
But I don't see personally any significant avantage of the 36T (or the 54T) instead of the 18T for road biking.
It is more like a "nice to have" maybe (I suppose the reason why DT Swiss took the 36T in the premium ERC 1100 Dicut) but definitely not a "must have" for road biking in my opinion. I would be as happy with the 18T. More important for me would be to have the DT 240.
The upgrade to 36T or 54T is anyway super easy so that's always an option for the one who want or need it in case they have only the 18T in their 240s.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:38 pm 
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uraz wrote:
ergott wrote:
I'm not defending DT, but what does changing gears have to do with it? It's not like you stop pedaling to change gears.


I'm not changing gears under load if I don't have to, and this is all you need to disengage a freewheel (even when you don't stop pedalling). Any drop in power/cadence is sufficient to feel how 18T ratchet works.


Tell me......how do you turn the pedals if you don't apply any load to them?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:48 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
Yes thicker spokes help but if you had used a hub with better geometry you could have used thinner spokes.


I guess you didn't read my comment too closely. I have a set built around a hub with better geometry and thinner spokes and they are not as stiff as the set built around the hub with less optimal geo and thicker spokes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:21 pm 
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DJT21 wrote:
Tell me......how do you turn the pedals if you don't apply any load to them?


Sorry but I won't tell... you will have to figure it out for yourself.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:49 pm 
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BdaGhisallo wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:
Yes thicker spokes help but if you had used a hub with better geometry you could have used thinner spokes.


I guess you didn't read my comment too closely. I have a set built around a hub with better geometry and thinner spokes and they are not as stiff as the set built around the hub with less optimal geo and thicker spokes.
The Sapim CX-Sprint is the same gauge as the Sapim Race. Similar comparison between DT Aero Comp and DT Competition.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:49 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Location: Islip, NY
Duplicate post

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