Is 2018 the year proper race bikes with discs gain momentum?

[wheelbuilder]

You are on a roll tonight Tobin! I am a fast, old pensioner, and I belong to PenVelo. You seem pretty clued in on the demographics of the bay area roadie scene. I will give you that.

I also am in Pen Velo...occasionally do the 8 AM weekend rides, but honestly prefer to ride solo. Decently fast bunch considering PV members are probably oldest on average compared to the other Bay Area race teams. I’m leaving out recreational clubs like WW and FFW of course. Do you do those rides? Maybe we’ve actually chatted in person unknowingly.

Or maybe I just Googled all this information.

But yeah, if others keep the discussion civil, so do I. I just resent the insinuation that disc brake buyers are noobs and/or sheep.

E: BTW I dig the new custom PV colors Bell Z20...I already have a black and a yellow one, and may as well get one in club colors.

Wow. Small world. Before I broke my collarbone and had surgery in January, I did the Saturday group religiously, and occasionally Sundays. I too like the design of their kit but as of yet have not picked any up. I used to work for Trek and don't like them too much, and the PV kit as you know has Trek emblazoned everywhere. My get a jersey though so I can identify with other members. I've never attended any club functions and am not that social, so I really don't know anyone too well. I'm starting to get some fitness back and will start doing weekend rides again, so maybe I will see you out there. I know the bike to look for and you know mine.

[dvq]

NorCal 30-something Specialized tubeless disc brake crew checking in.

[Calnago]

OK, how many thousands of miles have you put on it? What kind of terrain and conditions have you ridden it on? Big descents? Is it a race geo bike? Have you raced it? What bike is it? What wheels? Is it your size and have you been fit to it so you were comfortable enough to spend the neccessary hundreds of hours in the saddle to meet the criteria of really "living with it"?

Saying you can ride it any time you want doesn't mean you actually have

Really Mopho... you now have some self defined "criteria" of "living with"? That's funny. Well, not that I’m obligated to engage you any further but....
Less than a thousand miles I’d guess. Mostly just to experiment with stuff. If I loved it I’d have more miles and would own one but truth is, I like my other bikes more. So I ride them instead. Conditions are limited to paved roads, all the time. Cold, hot. Wet, but who really likes riding in the pouring rain, unless it’s to say “my disc brakes work well in the pouring rain”. They do. Meh. But my rim brake rain bike is just fine too. I ajdust to the conditions, and I would adjust to the conditions on a disc braked bike in terrible conditions as well. Common sense. I’ll wave to you when I see you out riding in that crap. Enjoy. In the dry, I’ll take my rim brakes. Big descents. Twisty. Burnt the discs my first ride, new bike, braking hard. Why not, it was a test after all. My bad, wasn’t aware you had to bed the pads in first. That was in 2014 during my first experience with road discs. Ultegra hydros. Sounds like that was quite a while before you even got yours. Race geo. Short chainstays. Handles nice. Haven’t raced it. Don’t race. I’m a whale, remember. But I wouldn’t race it anyway due to lack of neutral wheel support let alone getting a neutral wheel that would actaully work from the get go with no fiddling...

Blah, blah balh... I could go on... but I'm done. And of course it’s my size, I wouldn’t ride it otherwise, and of course I’ve set it up just like I set up all my bikes.
So yeah, totally comfortable. The disc brakes work just fine. And so do my rim brakes. That's the point... I don't need discs on the road. Maybe it's as simple as I don't like the looks of them on road bikes. I don't know. I'm not trying to take away anything from their performance attributes. They work. But are they needed, certainly not. Obviously people want them. That's fine too. It's nice to have things we don't need if that's what you prefer. Have at it.

There’s just something ultimately pure and simple about the high end road racing bicycles with rim brakes. Love them. Shoot me. It's like your old porsche, you know... before they became all "big and bloated and full of electronics" as you put it. They work pretty well and are fun.

If I had a mountain bike... discs. If I had a commuter for year round every day rain sleet hail... discs, with full fenders and flaps.

If I was buying a road bike today for a girlfriend... discs. She would like how easy the hydraulics are to actuate the braking effect. I have hydraulic rim brakes on my touring bike for that reason.

So yeah, discs for all kinds of things, most things actually. But forcing them into the pro peloton is simply the wrong application and more marketing driven than anything. Not needed. Not wanted. And simply less efficient from all kinds of perspectives from wheel changes to weight penalties to maintenance. But that’s the showcase for product. And so it goes. And that is the dilemma.

Don’t worry, they’ll get there. But as far as I’m concerned it’s a step backwards at the highest level for the sake of selling product to the masses. The masses come in all wanting disc brakes now, for sure. But if you ask the masses "why?"... the response more often than not is a combination of "well, that's the latest thing isn't it?", followed by some regurgitation of internet marketing speak.

Just please keep in mind that my only beef with discs is limited to that very thin slice of ultimate high end road bikes. A small ultimate market for sure, so I can see why the manufacturers would like it to just go away completely, even though the rim brake is still the best technology all things considered for that thin slice of the market. Trouble is that very thin slice is hugely important from a marketing perspective as it ultimately translates to sales all the way through the entire industry. Get that picture of the Tour de France being won on disc brakes and I know you boys will then rest in peace. Why else would you so adamantly be wishing for the demise of the rim brakes. I hope the UCI actually does lower the weight limit. Then the rim brake bikes will enjoy an advantage that the disc bikes can’t match, all else being equal. I just hope for the sake of the riders that things stay safe from a frame weight perspective. It makes no sense to make a disc bike that matches the weight of a rim bike if they have to compromise (use less) frame material in order to achieve it. Let the guys on the disc bikes win as a result on the merits of how fast their disc brakes can stop them, but don’t compromise the frames integrity or safety just to match the weight of a rim brake bike. That would be just dumb.

By the way, I do love the term "measurebating". I think every serious cyclist should be aware of their basic fit measurements and know how that translates to the geometry of the bike. Surprising how many have no clue.

Later... or at least till end of season when a yearly wrapup of the disc brake status at the pro level may be in order. Looking forward to it.

You continue to miss the point, no one gives a crap what you like or what you want to ride, the issue is the constant missinformation and exaggerating that you spew into every disc brake discussion. It is from this I can tell that you have limited experience with road disc or at the very least are so blinded by your biases that you are just saying nonsense to rationalize your choices and convince others to agree with you.
None the less, quite the coincidence then that someone elses bike that just happens to be in your garage for a year, fits you, is set up for you and funny how now it is race geo bike (back before many companies were even making race geo disc) when in earlier threads you admitted that your experience with disc was merely on commuter/touring bikes... Seems to me you are the same kind of keyboard jockey you are accusing others of.

And again, get off your high horse about people falling for the marketing hype, the high end ultimate road bike market you're so concerned with is the epitome of marketing and branding convincing people to part with their money, and you ride a Colnago for crying out loud!

* and I don't have a problem with people buying such bikes, just pointing out your hypocracy.

Why else would you so adamantly be wishing for the demise of the rim brakes.

Where have I said that?! It makes no difference to me what people buy, I am fine with both options being available, I just find the arguments whining about it to be silly.


And why are you so concerned with disc being "forced" on the pro peloton? What difference does it make to you, you're not racing? It's their job to ride what the manufacturers are selling, if they don't like it, they can quit

You are a funny fellow MoPho... so yesterday, just for you, I took the disc bike out for a nice long ride. Oh, by the way, this is not the same bike I was testing as a rain bike in 2014, I think you may have been confused there. And maybe I should have said that this bike is "close enough" to my size that I can comfortably ride it all day just fine, and you know there's this bolt on the seatpost that allowed me to jack up the saddle height a centimeter... suppose I could have used a centimeter longer stem as well... blah blah blah... but all that is irrelevant when talking about the discs. And who is missing the point? And oh yeah... I could ride this thing a million miles or a hundred miles... the brake action remains the same and it doesn't take me long to adjust to it.

Ok... here's my ride report from yesterday. All the latest and greatest stuff from Shimano... Dura Ace Di2, calipers/rotors etc. Wheels were actaully Ultegra level, but all in all a fine perfectly set up piece of kit. It wasn't raining, just cool and overcast. It performed exactly as I expected it to perfrom... flawlessly. No noise, barring the occasional ping here and there. But no screeching like I often hear from so many other people's discs. Setup, cleaning, etc... basic stuff would hopefully take care of that, so why so many have issues I don't know. So, what's the problem you ask. No problem... they work fine. But I prefer, in almost every respect, the braking of my Boras over these. Simple as that. If you haven't used the Boras then I suppose you can't really comment. I've used other rim braked carbon rims that were like skating rinks when trying to brake. And I've used alloy rims that felt slick as well. So yes, give me a disc over those, or a better carbon rim/brake pad combo. There's always a lot of "it depends" when discussing equipment choices. But the sheer ugliness of the disc... while admittedly subjective, just made we want to throw up when looking down and seeing that rotor in front of me. I know you like the mountain bike look... fine.

Oh, the tires were Hutchinson Sector 28s, tubeless clinchers, and they were voluminous... super comfy though. But their "general goodness" simply doesn't come anywhere close to a set of Veloflex Vlanderen 27mm Tubulars.

Oh yeah... the whole bike weighed over 600 grams more than my non disc bikes. Yes, it's noticeable.

The bikes we see in the shops now are largely disc for sure, at all levels, even the high end road bikes. And they've been in the manufacturers pipeline for several years now... through development and production. And I'm sure back then the manufacturers thought that by now surely they'd have them completely entrenched in the pro peloton. They need that, they want that... not the racers themseleves, but the marketing teams. If you don't understand why, again... then really, you don't have a clue how business and marketing works. But, and I am passionate about this, and it's the reason I keep bringin it up... I firmly believe that at the highest level of road racing, rim brake technology is the better overall technology for all the reasons I've discussed before, and that disconnect between what may be best at the pro level versus what may be best at the general masses level is a huge huge disconnect in the marketing departments. Huge Huge Huge.... they want the disc bike in the shops to be pictured on the bikes crossing the finish line at the biggest races in the world. If they don't have that, then there is zero reason for them to be sponsoring these races if discs are the only thing they want to sell going forward. Unless of course, they have the pros riding them. So, ultimately, they will... but it sure is taking an awfully long time...

I can only imagine the top podium contenders sitting around chatting amongst themselves... "You use them"... "No, you use them"... "F**$ if I'm using them... I've got enough worries when my shifting just stops for no reason". Enter Sponsor Boss.... "Morning boys... guess what... As of today, you're ALL using them, now stop your whining and ride!" And to @Lewn's point (made very well I might add)... choice will be no more.

[MoPho]

You are a funny fellow MoPho... so yesterday, just for you, I took the disc bike out for a nice long ride. Oh, by the way, this is not the same bike I was testing as a rain bike in 2014, I think you may have been confused there. And maybe I should have said that this bike is "close enough" to my size that I can comfortably ride it all day just fine, and you know there's this bolt on the seatpost that allowed me to jack up the saddle height a centimeter... suppose I could have used a centimeter longer stem as well... blah blah blah... but all that is irrelevant when talking about the discs. And who is missing the point? And oh yeah... I could ride this thing a million miles or a hundred miles... the brake action remains the same and it doesn't take me long to adjust to it.

Everything you whine about disc has been the opposite of what mine, and others here who own a disc bike and have lived with them for some time have found to be the reality. Going out on one ride only teaches you so much about it. Are disc brakes perfect, no, but I am not the only one calling you out here, and at this point you've proven yourself so biased that you are clearly looking for reasons not to like disc brakes and have greatly exaggerated the "issues"
Right now I know about a dozen or so riders who have switched to disc, some who are very accomplished riders, and every one of them has said they will never go back to rim brakes.

But no screeching like I often hear from so many other people's discs. Setup, cleaning, etc... basic stuff would hopefully take care of that, so why so many have issues I don't know.

I don't know, why do so many people have issues with screeching on their rim brake bikes?
Every group ride I've gone on there is at least one or two people with screeching rim brakes. Why do so many folks on expensive bikes have chains that cry out from lack of lubrication too?

But I prefer, in almost every respect, the braking of my Boras over these. Simple as that. If you haven't used the Boras then I suppose you can't really comment. I've used other rim braked carbon rims that were like skating rinks when trying to brake

Well gee, maybe the manufacturers should force everyone to ride Boras and their ugly graphics since they are the only rims that brake good and all

I know you like the mountain bike look...

Huh?

Oh yeah... the whole bike weighed over 600 grams more than my non disc bikes. Yes, it's noticeable.

Oh bullshit! And unlesss it's the identical bike in every way but for the brakes, 600 grams over your bike doesn't mean the disc brakes added 600grams
My bike is over 1100g more than my previous bike because I went with components that weigh a little more and I ride around with front and back cameras now and I have been faster up every climb on it.
And as you noted you don't race, the weight doesn't matter, you don't need to beat anyone up a hill for a paycheck. You only think you need a super light bike because you (we) have been conditioned to think you need it from the same marketing you are railing against.
Is it nice to have a light bike, sure, but you don't NEED it. The small amount of weight added by disc is not going to stop you from keeping up with a group ride or beating a PR. If it does, then HTFU!

They need that, they want that... not the racers themseleves, but the marketing teams. If you don't understand why, again... then really, you don't have a clue how business and marketing works

You don't know what the racers want or don't want. And racers are just as resistant to change as anyone, in fact probably even more so. If I was pro racing, I wouldn't switch to disc either unless everyone did. Why would you take a chance on having a wheel change disadvantage, whether real or percieved?
And many pros ride disc on training bikes, which is out in the real world like the rest of us.

. they want the disc bike in the shops to be pictured on the bikes crossing the finish line at the biggest races in the world. If they don't have that, then there is zero reason for them to be sponsoring these races if discs are the only thing they want to sell going forward. Unless of course, they have the pros riding them. So, ultimately, they will... but it sure is taking an awfully long time...

Actually, it's you who doesn't understand how business and marketing works. It's all about branding and name recognition, not specifically what bike (or components) the pros are riding. As Tobin noted, disc is selling without the pros using it. Why do you think car companies invest in Formula One when the street cars have nothing to do with the race car? Typically, someone buys a bike and then becomes interested in the team/riders who is using it, not the other way around. I've even asked a friend who owns a shop about this and he said that the only time people refer to what pros are using is when they are trying to find some kind of apparel like glasses that they saw. But that was because they liked the style, not because the pro was using it.
And in reality, most cyclists dont even follow racing, I could barely name three or four riders and I don't know too many who pay attention beyond a casual interest when the big races are going on. This has become especially true in the US post Armstrong.

I can only imagine the top podium contenders sitting around chatting amongst themselves... "You use them"... "No, you use them"... "F**$ if I'm using them... I've got enough worries when my shifting just stops for no reason". Enter Sponsor Boss.... "Morning boys... guess what... As of today, you're ALL using them, now stop your whining and ride!" And to @Lewn's point (made very well I might add)... choice will be no more.

Well you keep on imagining away there chief....



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[Calnago]

I've said all I've have to, and made my arguments. You've made yours. Readers of both can decide for themselves... I'm good with that. I'm glad I was able to provide another point of view, regardless. Because you won't hear it from the manufacturers.

[Zakalwe]

It sure does feel like we’ve run out of things to be sold, groupsets aren’t getting much lighter, neither are framesets now really, there’s not a lot left to remove. Electronic gears are here, wired and wireless. To the casual observer it certainly looks like discs are being pushed in order to stimulate the upgrade cycle and hit the sales targets. We don’t really need discs any more than we need 600g frames or electronic gears, I’ve never once felt like I needed more stopping power on rim brakes, dry rides, wet rides, torrential downpours, more stopping power wouldn’t ever be necessary for me. I’m more worried about losing grip than being unable to stop in time, and adjust riding accordingly.

The drum brake analogy that gets trotted out is a good one, I like that because there’s not an awful lot wrong with drum brakes, in fact we stil use them in many applications. They perform just as well as discs and of their several advantages over discs a few are relevant to the rim/disc argument - they’re lighter, cheaper and require less maintenances. The only reason they’re not used exclusively is because they’re more prone to brake fade since cars got heavier and more powerful. When I last checked, the human body is more or less as it was 50 years ago, so disc brakes for bicycles is a bit of a belt and braces approach. They look just as bad as belt and braces too, and I’ll be pretty sad if that’s all that’s available for top end bikes in the future

[dcorn]

It sure does feel like we’ve run out of things to be sold, groupsets aren’t getting much lighter, neither are framesets now really, there’s not a lot left to remove. Electronic gears are here, wired and wireless. To the casual observer it certainly looks like discs are being pushed in order to stimulate the upgrade cycle and hit the sales targets. We don’t really need discs any more than we need 600g frames or electronic gears, I’ve never once felt like I needed more stopping power on rim brakes, dry rides, wet rides, torrential downpours, more stopping power wouldn’t ever be necessary for me. I’m more worried about losing grip than being unable to stop in time, and adjust riding accordingly.

The drum brake analogy that gets trotted out is a good one, I like that because there’s not an awful lot wrong with drum brakes, in fact we stil use them in many applications. They perform just as well as discs and of their several advantages over discs a few are relevant to the rim/disc argument - they’re lighter, cheaper and require less maintenances. The only reason they’re not used exclusively is because they’re more prone to brake fade since cars got heavier and more powerful. When I last checked, the human body is more or less as it was 50 years ago, so disc brakes for bicycles is a bit of a belt and braces approach. They look just as bad as belt and braces too, and I’ll be pretty sad if that’s all that’s available for top end bikes in the future

I have been in a situation where I needed more braking, a lot more. I had Exalith rims and it was still scary descending in the wet. I'm all about disc brakes. Which is why I just bought an Ui2 disc bike.

I agree with the disc/drum brake analogy and often trot it out myself. Drums are great for stuff like dump trucks that need a ton of braking power, but don't go that fast and don't stop very often. Disc brakes are advanced tech used on every wheeled racing machine in the world... except cycling.

There are still possible advances to be made, but they will come at an extreme cost. Make metal drivetrain parts out of forged and machined composite like lamborghini is doing now. Disc brake calipers can be made out of magnesium or maybe even carbon fiber. Make disc rotors carbon fiber/carbon ceramic like they do on cars. I think the issue here is they need to be hot to work and cyclists just don't use the brakes enough.

Then again, since there is a UCI weight limit and bikes are already made well below it, there is no incentive for manufacturers to spend the R&D dollars to make these parts. I want to compare the cycling world to Formula 1 because they are both elite forms of racing, but F1 doesn't have drivers or mechanics that are total luddites who have to conform to old traditions and superstitions instead of believing the science and using the newest tech. F1 (or LeMans Prototype) is the absolute pinnacle of auto engineering, but I personally ride a bike that is more technologically advanced than most pro cyclists.

[Zakalwe]

There’s an awful lot of tech that isn’t used in Formula 1 because it isn’t really appropriate. Newer and more “advanced” technology doesn’t make it a blanket improvement for every application you throw it at, drum brakes were fine for racing cars until those cars got too powerful. You, me, anyone on a bike, hasn’t got any more powerful. Discs are a solution looking for a problem.

[C36]

We drift from topic: yes disc have momentum regardless I consider or not that it could be an uneducated choices. This being said several of your comments bother me.

Are disc brakes perfect, no, but I am not the only one calling you out here, and at this point you've proven yourself so biased that you are clearly looking for reasons not to like disc brakes and have greatly exaggerated the "issues"

Would disagree with you, he is not biased. He keeps things in perspective. Disc have ONLY disadvantages except on the way down under certain conditions.
How can we rationally say "i will take disc in all cases"

Right now I know about a dozen or so riders who have switched to disc, some who are very accomplished riders, and every one of them has said they will never go back to rim brakes.

That's very possible and likely the reason why disc will gain momentum but has zero value if the change is rational or not.
How many of those riders compared with the same frame in rim brakes? Have you?
I did (twice) with supersix evo hm disc... and I own my second supersix evo hm... Le Cycle in France compared 3 identical bikes in disc and rim brakes... Canyon recognised it and so did a friend at Cannondale: ALL confirm That DISCS FRAMES DO NOT REACT AS WELL AS RIM BRAKES (sorry for the caps but still don't understand how is this not a main point).

I don't know, why do so many people have issues with screeching on their rim brake bikes?

Well I idea either but at least they can solve it on the road, not with discs.

Oh yeah... the whole bike weighed over 600 grams more than my non disc bikes. Yes, it's noticeable.

Oh bullshit! And unlesss it's the identical bike in every way but for the brakes, 600 grams over your bike doesn't mean the disc brakes added 600grams
My bike is over 1100g more than my previous bike because I went with components that weigh a little more and I ride around with front and back cameras now and I have been faster up every climb on it.

It's called physics... on flats, the feeling is a lot stronger than the real gain. On climbs it does make a real difference (edit running the maths) 1.6s/km at 9% slope.




Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[Toby]

This is an extremely frustrating question. Wifey and I are about to get new bikes to replace our ancient S1 and AR4. Primary concerns are better fit (her AR4 is a size too large) and clearance for big ol' fat tires to smooth out crummy Texas chipseal. Everything else can be changed, but the disc vs rim situation is commitment. Currently we're leaning towards disc, as neither of us is a confident descender and we've both been scared downhill into an intersection turning red. However, we're both concerned about getting locked into frames, long-term, on the "wrong" brake standard, whether that's one that dies out over the next decade or one that is less effective or needs more maintenance or...

Paralysis by analysis. I will say we're leaning discwards at the moment, probably with matching fluro R3s (though Lynskey offering a free i9.45 with a Helix Disc for the same price is a compelling sell, especially since I've always wanted titanium).

[Calnago]

@Toby: in your case, I'd go disc. Even a Domane rim brake bike with direct mount brakes will have tire size limitations, which a disc bike won't, at least not until you reach SUV tire proportions. The choice now is indeed a commitment to a frame (my pet peeve); however, due to increased dropout width in the rear, disc caliper mounts, etc, and appropraite cable routings, but I don't think that should concern you in the least for your use. Since you're both not so confident at descending, you will appreciate the ease with which hydraulically activated brakes work. I have hydraulic brakes on my touring bike for that very reason, but they are still rim brakes. You won't have the "wrong" brake going forward for what you are intending to do with your bikes. They may need a bit more maintenace, but you learn how to maintain whatever system you have... it's part of the deal, or just take it to a competent shop. This thread is more about the highest level of road race bikes, marketing, and other such nonsense. That's where things get a little, or a lot, more debatable.

Like others have said, bike shops are flooded with disc bikes at the moment, and that's not likely to change. Choose the color you like and get a good fit and I think you'll be happy campers going forward, especially on that Texas chipseal.

[MichaelB]

I laugh at some of the disc naysayers on here, I really do.

Honestly, if they think there rim brake bikes suit them and they are happy, the great. Same goes for discs.

Had to laugh at one poster on another forum I'm visiting, where his argument was along the lines of the new bars on the Canyon Grail were done only to overcome the added stiffness of the forks because of the discs fitted. Yep, he was serious.

Oh well, disc are better, and I'm riding them. They suit me, where & when I ride. Simple.

[MoPho]

Would disagree with you, he is not biased. He keeps things in perspective.

Yeah, he keeps things in perspective because you agree with his bias and exaggerations

Disc have ONLY disadvantages except on the way down under certain conditions.
How can we rationally say "i will take disc in all cases"

...uh, the same way you can say you will take rim brakes in all cases?

And it could be argued that ALL BRAKES have only disadvantages except on the way down. Silly comment

That's very possible and likely the reason why disc will gain momentum but has zero value if the change is rational or not.
How many of those riders compared with the same frame in rim brakes? Have you?
I did (twice) with supersix evo hm disc... and I own my second supersix evo hm... Le Cycle in France compared 3 identical bikes in disc and rim brakes... Canyon recognised it and so did a friend at Cannondale: ALL confirm That DISCS FRAMES DO NOT REACT AS WELL AS RIM BRAKES (sorry for the caps but still don't understand how is this not a main point).

I had a Giant TCR rim brake prior to my TCR disc, couldn't say there is much of a difference, but the bikes are never truly identical. How a bike reacts is subjective and really hard to prove or identify differences.
But you're right, most people won't compare directly, which is why your comment about not "reacting" as well, even if true, doesn't matter and is not the main point.

Well I idea either but at least they can solve it on the road, not with discs.

It can be solved on disc brakes too.

It's called physics... on flats, the feeling is a lot stronger than the real gain. On climbs it does make a real difference (edit running the maths) 1.6s/km at 9% slope.

Sorry, but most people would be hard pressed to feel the difference of the added weight of disc and those that say they can, that is questionable. It's not even a pound!! Skip the hamburger!
The physics is irrelevant to my point which was that if you are not relying on winning races for your paycheck (and I'll even give you amateur racing at the sharp end of the stick), why do you care so much about saving a few seconds on a climb from weight savings? Is it ego? Why not just try and train harder, or lose the pound of weight on your body?
The vast majority of riders are recreational, riding for fitness and fun, a pound or less isn't going to stop you and "buying speed" doesn't improve your fitness. And even in racing where the argument is made for such marginal gains, disc bikes are already down to below the minimum weight so there is no disadvantage there (not to mention a lot of riders are on rim brake bikes that are heavier than the minimum).



Oh, and here you go, kind of tosses the obsoletion argument out the window too https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/ ... ble-50691/




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[TobinHatesYou]

Oh well, disc are better, and I'm riding them. They suit me, where & when I ride. Simple.

I had to laugh at the comment earlier that disc only has disadvantages except in certain descending situations. Really guys? Just distill it to this.

“Disc’s only advantage is being the better, more advanced braking technology.”

[cassard]

if you follow the real physics principles, at constant speed on flat, it's impossible to feel a 600g difference on the bike. If you do feel a difference, it's in your head.