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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:19 am 
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Okay, so why do you take issue with people wanting to improve the weight of their bike when you wanted to "improve" your brakes?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:30 am 
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Location: Canada
Canada jumps in, huge market opens :lol: :
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/new ... ss-canada/

Louis :)


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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:30 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:43 am 
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Posts: 330
Location: NorCal/SoCal
themidge wrote:
Okay, so why do you take issue with people wanting to improve the weight of their bike when you wanted to "improve" your brakes?



I don't take issue with people wanting to improve the weight of their bike, I take issue with people exaggerating the affect of the 1lb or less that discs add as if it's some big reason for everyone to avoid disc brakes. If you are road racing where you would want any advantage you can get, there is a minimum weight that disc brake bikes are already getting down to, so there is no loss there. If you are a recreational rider building a light bike, what's a 13lb bike going to do for you that a 14lb bike can't besides the challenge of building it and bragging rights?





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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:53 am 
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MoPho wrote:
Lewn777 wrote:



People rant and rave daily about how their bike handles better, accelerates better and goes up mountains a tad faster because they just switched out a boat anchor OEM set of wheels to something much nicer and saved 500 grams. Yet you show up with some kind of post-purchase rationalization disorder on a website called weight weenies of all places talking about how 900g hasn't made any difference. People spend thousands of dollars to shed that amount weight off their bikes.

Maybe you should start a website called whogivesafigabouttheweighoftheirbikeweenies.com :lol:

Enjoy riding your bike, I'm sure it's good. I'd like to own one too, just stop trying to convince everyone else, it makes you sound like you're trying to convince yourself. :thumbup:



A. Rotating mass in wheels will affect the feel of a bike a lot more than 400g in fixed weight. And there is nothing stopping someone from switching out their boat anchor OEM disc brake wheels for something lighter or spending thousands to shave weight off their bike.

B. Yeah, this is weight weenies, yet about 70% of the rim brake bikes I see posted weight around the same as my disc brake bike. :roll: And that is probably the same percentage for bikes out on most group rides. Unless your paycheck is coming from winning races and you need every marginal gain you can get, spending thousands of dollars to shed weight off your bike is a want, not a need.
Like I said, building light bikes is a fun hobby and that's fine, but don't push your choices as gospel.

C. Unlike the anti-disc crowd who seem to have jump into every disc brake thread and convince everyone how terrible discs are, I am not trying to convince you to buy anything and don't care what you ride. My position has always been to counter the incorrect "facts" and silly arguments like fake outrage over 400g as if that's critical to enjoying your bike or being fast.





.

Almost all the commenters and in this thread and others that you think are anti-disk in fact are not. People that are really anti disk and have never tried them are scared to comment on threads like this, they'll simply be told their opinion is meaningless as they 'haven't even tried them' and if they have but don't have much experience with sub optimal results they'll be told that they 'haven't done it right'. So that leaves people like me that actually have extensive experience with disk brakes but are on the fence about them for every cycling application or think that they are not worth the weight or hassle quite yet with a general/climbing type road bike.

Me, I'm just lazy. I have a bunch of mountain bikes, I need to clean all the calipers, clean the pistons, change the pads and bleed the systems some rotors could do with truing too. Hours of work, and expense when I could be riding, maybe I'll get round to it over the winter. My heart sinks with the idea of chucking out such a simple effective lightweight design that has come of age like a road disk brake caliper for a maintenance heavy, teething not fully developed design like a road disk brake caliper.

When you deny the disadvantages of and over-hype the advantages of hydraulic disk brakes it misleads others and it also plays into the hands of corporate marketing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:15 am 
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Posts: 330
Location: NorCal/SoCal
Lewn777 wrote:




Me, I'm just lazy. I have a bunch of mountain bikes, I need to clean all the calipers, clean the pistons, change the pads and bleed the systems some rotors could do with truing too. Hours of work, and expense when I could be riding, maybe I'll get round to it over the winter. My heart sinks with the idea of chucking out such a simple effective lightweight design that has come of age like a road disk brake caliper for a maintenance heavy, teething not fully developed design like a road disk brake caliper.

When you deny the disadvantages of and over-hype the advantages of hydraulic disk brakes it misleads others and it also plays into the hands of corporate marketing.



First off, I've not over-hyped or even talked about the advantages of disc in this thread, as I noted I only post to counter what I have found to incorrect arguments against disc based on my personal experience of putting many thousands of miles on a disc bike that I own. I have not denied the disadvantages, I noted how you and others were exaggerating them.
As I already pointed out to you, my disc brake bike has needed nothing in the way of maintenance in over a year, in fact it was my rim brakes that needed more tinkering with, particularly with the fact that my TCR used to eat cable housings, which not only meant re-threading cables though the frame, but redoing the bar tape, etc., this occurred several times a year. Not to mention it was more trouble to change pads when switching between CF or alloy wheels.

I also wanted disc brakes long before they were even on road bikes, so I did not play into the hands of corporate marketing. But lets be honest here, disc brakes are not the only thing on bikes that you can accuse of being some big nefarious plot of corporate marketing, when I first started riding, a high end bike weighed like 25lbs, we only ride lighter bikes now because companies came out with something new to get you to buy more stuff ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:16 am 
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Location: Madison, WI USA
Lewn777 wrote:
I have a bunch of mountain bikes, I need to clean all the calipers, clean the pistons, change the pads and bleed the systems some rotors could do with truing too. Hours of work, and expense when I could be riding, maybe I'll get round to it over the winter. My heart sinks with the idea of chucking out such a simple effective lightweight design that has come of age like a road disk brake caliper for a maintenance heavy, teething not fully developed design like a road disk brake caliper.

When you deny the disadvantages of and over-hype the advantages of hydraulic disk brakes it misleads others and it also plays into the hands of corporate marketing.

Let me see if I understand your position on this:

You melodramatically exaggerate the maintenance burden of hydraulic discs, but you're not anti-disc?
Your "heart sinks" at the idea of other people--not you, but other people--"chucking out" a design you're fond of in favor of hydraulic discs, but you're not anti-disc?
You accuse others of mendacious astroturfing for mega-corporations and their hydraulic-disc agendas (?!?) by "denying the disadvantages and over-hyping the advantages?" Are you even reading your own posts?

I don't care if you or anyone else rides Campy Delta brakes until they turn to dust. Ride what you like, seriously. I'm excited about hydraulic road discs, but I don't care whether you are. Still, I can't suppress a giggle when you have the temerity to suggest that you're objective while everyone else is biased. I'm just putting this out there: if you're constantly interacting with people who have foolish biases against your favorite bits of bike gear, maybe it's you.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 am 
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It's not worth responding to Lewn777.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:03 am 
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Posts: 131
youngs_modulus wrote:
Lewn777 wrote:
I have a bunch of mountain bikes, I need to clean all the calipers, clean the pistons, change the pads and bleed the systems some rotors could do with truing too. Hours of work, and expense when I could be riding, maybe I'll get round to it over the winter. My heart sinks with the idea of chucking out such a simple effective lightweight design that has come of age like a road disk brake caliper for a maintenance heavy, teething not fully developed design like a road disk brake caliper.

When you deny the disadvantages of and over-hype the advantages of hydraulic disk brakes it misleads others and it also plays into the hands of corporate marketing.

Let me see if I understand your position on this:

You melodramatically exaggerate the maintenance burden of hydraulic discs, but you're not anti-disc?
Your "heart sinks" at the idea of other people--not you, but other people--"chucking out" a design you're fond of in favor of hydraulic discs, but you're not anti-disc?
You accuse others of mendacious astroturfing for mega-corporations and their hydraulic-disc agendas (?!?) by "denying the disadvantages and over-hyping the advantages?" Are you even reading your own posts?

I don't care if you or anyone else rides Campy Delta brakes until they turn to dust. Ride what you like, seriously. I'm excited about hydraulic road discs, but I don't care whether you are. Still, I can't suppress a giggle when you have the temerity to suggest that you're objective while everyone else is biased. I'm just putting this out there: if you're constantly interacting with people who have foolish biases against your favorite bits of bike gear, maybe it's you.

I'm totally on the fence with disk brakes. I adore my disk brakes on my MTBs other than the brake rub or maintenance, and I'd never go back to V-brakes in a million years. I'm not so sure about those disadvantages on a road bike is all I'm saying. I honestly think you advocates are blinding yourselves to those disadvantages. Nothing I'd like more more than almost maintenance free disk brakes that never drag, have oodles of power for one finger rolling stoppies that only add 400 grams to your bike etc. The truth is probably that this is not the case.

If you think I'm being paranoid about 'mega-corporations and their hydraulic-disc agendas' I am. The pseudo science spouted by Giant when they forced 27.5 wheels onto the MTB market was a complete disgrace.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:36 am 
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Posts: 550
Location: Where the permanent autumn is
I've ridden a disc brake bike for two seasons already (never raced with it).

Am I impressed with ability to suddenly brake while commuting around the city in the rain? Yes, totally (despite, of course, locking the wheels in the process)

Am I impressed with the " stability" and "easiness" to work with the system? (in my case: hydraulic Ultegra Di2 6870). No, not at all. While I can get around basically any problem with any brand of rim brakes really quickly (and I've yet to have worn out a set of rim pads, not to speak about rims themselves), disc brakes have been much more finicky - pad changes at least twice per year, several visits to LBS for proper bleeding and lever adjustments (one of the most competent mechanics around, having worked for the local pro conti team). And this, ignoring the fact that you might have Shimano / SRAM bikes which need each their own bleeding kit, braking fluid etc etc. Or, if going abroad to ride into the mountains, I'm sure I can fix any problem with rim brakes. Totally not sure if that's the same if something happened with disc brakes.

Of course, this comparison of longevity is skewed due to the fact that I rarely ride my rim brake bikes in wet conditions.

So, would I like to have another disc bike? Yes, n+1 is absolutely the goal. However, for my training a disc bike won't add any benefit and will introduce maintenance complexities I'm not ready to commit yet. Although, if Cervelo came out with S5 disc next fall, I might rethink my position :twisted:

For all the people who either do a lot of descending, have only a single do-it-all bike, do all the maintenance with their LBS, disc brakes are a more logical choice already. And, since overall the numbers probably add up as being the majority, we can answer the original question of the thread as "yes".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
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Lewn777 wrote:
Me, I'm just lazy. I have a bunch of mountain bikes, I need to clean all the calipers, clean the pistons, change the pads and bleed the systems some rotors could do with truing too. Hours of work, and expense when I could be riding, maybe I'll get round to it over the winter. My heart sinks with the idea of chucking out such a simple effective lightweight design that has come of age like a road disk brake caliper for a maintenance heavy, teething not fully developed design like a road disk brake caliper.

I've actually found the road hydro to need much less maintenance than MTB. Maybe just because they're not used as aggressively, I don't know.

But I did 4,000 winter miles between october and march on a set of basic 105 equivalent RS505 and the only thing I did was spray the discs with cleaner every now and then and once drop the wheels out and sandpaper the pads. I'd have spent more time cleaning wheel rims if I'd been on conventional brakes. YMMV.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 pm
Posts: 225
The man has only used mtb disc brakes , and he doesn't tell us which ones ...
So his opinions are worthless ....

Shimano brakes are really good for years in MTB
Sram used to suck a lot with the avid elixir , they are a little bit better with guide and the new ones

I wouldn't mess with sram disc brakes on the road .
The shimano brakes better and use mineral oil , easier to purge ,
You must be a noob not being able to purge disc brakes , it's not that difficult go check some youtube tutorials

I've had the RS685 ( they were the first disc brakes levers for mechanical shifting for 10 000 km, the levers were really big and may rattle on rough roads .
Not purge needed , the pads lasted 10 000 km ...

Now I have ordered the R9120 dura ace levers , they are smaller , lighter , not rattle .
Shimano was the first to jump on the train but I would buy the new one ultegra or dura ace , the others are not that good with the form .

Sram even the Etap levers are really big and high


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