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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 pm 
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So.. the Canton Ultimate Disc is just a wee bit porky at 8.1 kg including pedals, bottle cages and the Wahoo .. it's the 9.0 SL model on ultegra 6800 and the "ultegra level" no line hydraulic calipers and shifters. How much weight would it be possible to save by changing calipers and or shifters to 8000 or 9100 series? (:


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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Wilmington, DE
Weights are published for the various Shimano bits. I doubt you'll save much going to the newest Ultegra. Dura Ace will save some weight but for a pretty high cost. How much weight are you looking to cut and what's your budget for doing so? Do you know what your current wheels, tires, saddle, seatpost, stem, handlebars, etc. weigh? You'll have a much better sense of where to spend your money if you know those numbers. More than likely there's some low hanging fruit that'll cut more weight for less money than swapping calipers and/or shifters.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am
Posts: 131
Isn't there a SRAM version? You could save some weight. Plus I prefer SRAM, might be heresy for some.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Vienna Austria
Shifters and brakes will be the last place to save weight for cost and complexity reasons.

Most production bikes are quite optimized meaning that most components are on a similar value/performance/weight level, so I'd be surprised if there were any low-hanging fruit left. Saving weight off a finished, complete build is also usually rather hard and mostly useless.

Still, make a list of known weights and post it here. My feeling is that you'll be able to save 120g by swapping out stem, bars, seat & seatpost while spending 600+ €/$.

Or save 50g by going Dura Ace and spend 700.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Wilmington, DE
Marin wrote:
Shifters and brakes will be the last place to save weight for cost and complexity reasons.

Most production bikes are quite optimized meaning that most components are on a similar value/performance/weight level, so I'd be surprised if there were any low-hanging fruit left. Saving weight off a finished, complete build is also usually rather hard and mostly useless.

Still, make a list of known weights and post it here. My feeling is that you'll be able to save 120g by swapping out stem, bars, seat & seatpost while spending 600+ €/$.

Or save 50g by going Dura Ace and spend 700.


The seatpost supposedly weighs 230 grams according to the reviews and assuming it has a Fizik Antares R5 saddle that's another 202 grams. The Arione R1 and Ritchey Superlogic seatpost I used on my 7.56kg disc road bike would save 130 grams for ~$350 (based on what I paid). I'm sure there are less expensive and lighter options out there as well.

Don't forget lightweight tubes as another easy weight reduction.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:51 pm 
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If only there were a lighter brake system that used an existing component like the rims as a braking surface. Then the spokes wouldn't see a load and could be lighter too. And if the calipers were mounted in the center line of the wheel and to an already strong area like the fork crown you could lighten the legs.

Sorry, I've been on tour for a week and getting the constant requests from customers for a light bike. But a disc brake bike. But a light bike. ARG!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 116
8,1 kg incl. pedals and bottle cages is actually not bad for a disc brake bike. you could save with new dura ace levers about 150g with no harm to functionality. with seatpost you can save about 80g choosing something really light, but with sacrifising a bit of comfort as vcls seatposts are very comfortable. You may choose lighter saddle. you may have lighter rotors, shimano rotor is about 125g, my galfer rotors, which works ok, are under 90g. but they are 6bolts, so you need 10g adapter. You can switch to lighter tubes, latex tube can be about 60g while the stock tube can be about 100g, this is a cheap upgrade:) you may buy another wheelset. Mavic Cosmic is nice but between 1700-1800g. My 35mm tubeless MCFK wheels are about 1300g. not so aero, but fits Ultimate scope well..


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:00 pm
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Would be nice to go closer to 7 than 7.5 (: but I assume that’s wishful thinking..
The wheels are the DT Swiss R23, so they’re 1650, so save from going tubs I have only about 200gr of wheel weight to lighten. (To any new generation md depth disc specific carbon rim ).

I’m specifically contemplating the value of getting a really nice set of wheels, such as Cosmic/Comètes or even Reynolds Aero 46 or 65 db for this one, or if I will always regret not getting a super light rim breaked dito. Also, I’m living in flat Sweden so really weight shouldn’t matter too much, but neither should breaking. I do however like the alps, went from Geneva to Nice this season and would love to do it again (:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:52 am
Posts: 85
i reckon if you wanted lighter calipers then go to XTR brake calipers as they are around 180g compared to 250g for the BR785.

The only difference is the brake hose connections with the XTR using a connection bolt


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:58 am
Posts: 31
Lelandjt wrote:
Sorry, I've been on tour for a week and getting the constant requests from customers for a light bike. But a disc brake bike. But a light bike. ARG!!!


Focuz Izalco Max disc with Dura-Ace is about 7.5kg? But costs about AUD$10,000 so yeah.....one lotto win though.....


Fatclimber wrote:
Would be nice to go closer to 7 than 7.5 (: but I assume that’s wishful thinking..


FWIW I'm looking at 2018 Giant TCR rim brake bikes. In my Large frame size, the Advanced Pro 0 for AUD$5300 weighs exactly 7.0kg without pedals. The Adv Pro 1 for $3300 is 7.45kg.

Disc models aren't out till the end of the month so don't know those weights yet.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:54 pm 
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^Yeah, like everything else you gotta assume that disc bike weights and prices will come down but considering my 61cm, aero everything, $5000, rim brake bike from 2016 is 6.6kg I still see it as an either/or proposition.

My contribution to the thread is to recommend Formula R1 rotors, Carbon-Ti hubs, CX-Ray spokes, and Light Bicycle Flyweight rims. My MOUNTAIN BIKE 28 spoke wheelset using the above parts weighs 1130g, not counting rotors, and cost about $1,000.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:06 pm
Posts: 173
Location: NC, USA
BRAVO!!!


Lelandjt wrote:
If only there were a lighter brake system that used an existing component like the rims as a braking surface. Then the spokes wouldn't see a load and could be lighter too. And if the calipers were mounted in the center line of the wheel and to an already strong area like the fork crown you could lighten the legs.

Sorry, I've been on tour for a week and getting the constant requests from customers for a light bike. But a disc brake bike. But a light bike. ARG!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 58
I don't ride disc brakes but I don't really understand why a lot of people act like disc brakes are stupid and rim brakes are the greatest thing out there and can not be improved upon. It kind of seems more logical to me to use a disc seperate to your wheel for braking (you know like cars have been doing for ages) as opposed to using the actual rim for braking. You are pretty much intentionally wearing out a structural part, seems illogical to me. And up until a few years ago it was impossible to ride full carbon clinchers because the heat management problem hadn't been solved yet. With disc brakes, that was never even a problem. You can ride your nice carbon clincher rims as much as you want and can because there is no heat build up in the rim and you're not even wearing out the carbon brake surface. But then again I'm not an engineer, so this may all turn out to be idiotic ramblings.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2928
Location: eh?
Renne wrote:
I don't ride disc brakes but I don't really understand why a lot of people act like disc brakes are stupid and rim brakes are the greatest thing out there and can not be improved upon. It kind of seems more logical to me to use a disc seperate to your wheel for braking (you know like cars have been doing for ages) as opposed to using the actual rim for braking. You are pretty much intentionally wearing out a structural part, seems illogical to me. And up until a few years ago it was impossible to ride full carbon clinchers because the heat management problem hadn't been solved yet. With disc brakes, that was never even a problem. You can ride your nice carbon clincher rims as much as you want and can because there is no heat build up in the rim and you're not even wearing out the carbon brake surface. But then again I'm not an engineer, so this may all turn out to be idiotic ramblings.


Nobody thinks disc brakes are a bad thing in themselves. The problem is the extra cost, complication and weight for what is in some cases is a small or zero benefit to the buyer. The subject of this thread is about weight so for some buyers disc brakes could represent a negative benefit.

_________________
wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am
Posts: 131
Renne wrote:
I don't ride disc brakes but I don't really understand why a lot of people act like disc brakes are stupid and rim brakes are the greatest thing out there and can not be improved upon. It kind of seems more logical to me to use a disc seperate to your wheel for braking (you know like cars have been doing for ages) as opposed to using the actual rim for braking. You are pretty much intentionally wearing out a structural part, seems illogical to me. And up until a few years ago it was impossible to ride full carbon clinchers because the heat management problem hadn't been solved yet. With disc brakes, that was never even a problem. You can ride your nice carbon clincher rims as much as you want and can because there is no heat build up in the rim and you're not even wearing out the carbon brake surface. But then again I'm not an engineer, so this may all turn out to be idiotic ramblings.

I'm so on the fence with disk brakes for road bikes.

On one hand I don't want the extra expense, cost, complication, any brake rub and maintenance (I have 10 years on maintaining motorcycle and MTB disk brakes). But then the wet braking and how fast you can wear out your rims pushes me back to disks. Maybe N+1, keep a shallow wheeled rim brake climbing bike and have a disk aero bike use each half as much and save some wear and tear.

I got a $1400 dollar low end carbon bike (Fuji SL 3.3) down to under 7.5 KG by changing out the wheelset, tires, seat, post and a few other parts. I seriously doubt this would ever be possible on a disk brake bike. 7.5 KG are we talking $5000?

Back to the subject. As has been mentioned the rotors are an area to look at. Often the OEM bars, stem, seat and seat posts have some weight to save, up to 50g a part sometimes more.

Also the wheels and tires. If there are tubes and tires, You could save some weight with Continental GP4000S2 and latex tubes or Schwalbe Pro One with Orange sealant. You just need time to sit down, remove each part, weight it and decide if the cost is worth it.


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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 pm 


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