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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Hi,

I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.

My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)

For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.

So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.


But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?


Last edited by TonyM on Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:40 pm 
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Nope! You are 170cm and will require either a 50 or 47cm frame.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm
Posts: 791
TonyM wrote:
Hi,

I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.

My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)

For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.

So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.


But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?



Im riding 50S C60 and also have Pinarello FP3 in 53cm size. When i was buying C60 i had a chance to test ride Pinarello Dogma F8 in 51.5 cm. And it was fine with 120 mm stem (C60 and Fp3 i ride with 110mm stem), and 25mm spacers under the stem (C60 have 12 mm, FP3 about similar).

I would say that 51.5 will be almost same match to ur 48S.

I will pick between 51.5 and 50 (or 47) based on this things:

- Do u feel that u'll need even lower position of the handlebar?

- How is ur saddle positioned in the rails in this moment? Is it in center? Is it on the rear edge? Or maybe front edge?

But this one u can adjust also picking different setback on ur seatpost (there is two options, 0 and 20mm setback)

- How much saddle u want to be show

Make one detailed picture from the side of ur current setup :) so we can pick also based aesteticaly

And two more: One of the saddle position, one of the spacers part under the stem


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:20 am 
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Posts: 845
3Pio wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Hi,
I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.
My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)
For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.
So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.
But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?


Im riding 50S C60 and also have Pinarello FP3 in 53cm size. When i was buying C60 i had a chance to test ride Pinarello Dogma F8 in 51.5 cm. And it was fine with 120 mm stem (C60 and Fp3 i ride with 110mm stem), and 25mm spacers under the stem (C60 have 12 mm, FP3 about similar).

I would say that 51.5 will be almost same match to ur 48S.

I will pick between 51.5 and 50 (or 47) based on this things:

- Do u feel that u'll need even lower position of the handlebar?

- How is ur saddle positioned in the rails in this moment? Is it in center? Is it on the rear edge? Or maybe front edge?

But this one u can adjust also picking different setback on ur seatpost (there is two options, 0 and 20mm setback)

- How much saddle u want to be show

Make one detailed picture from the side of ur current setup :) so we can pick also based aesteticaly

And two more: One of the saddle position, one of the spacers part under the stem


Thanks for your feedback!

Yes I think 51.5cm or 50cm would be the best. But which one is the last question I have to figure out before I order it.

C60 48S: Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530
F10 51.5cm: Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535
F10 50cm: Reach: 374; Stack: 520; Top tube: 525

- Handlebar: I am actually fine with my current setup (C60 in 48S, 530mm top tube, 110mm/ -8° stem; no additional spacer). I don't have to go lower but I suppose that I could if I had to go lower (1cm lower with the F10 in 51.5cm and 1.25cm lower with the F10 in 50cm; with with a 110mm/-10° stem)

- Saddle: my saddle is in the centre at the moment but I have just swapped a new one and I have to set it approx. 1cm back

In terms of aesthetics, I like when you see "more" saddle seat post but on the other side a really too small frame (like the pro are using) just look "strange" to me.

So to me it looks like so in terms of the "figures"
- the F10 in 51.5cm would be like my current C60 in 48S BUT with a 0.5cm longer top tube AND a little less seatpost to see (-1.5cm).
And
- the F10 in 50cm would be like my current C60 in 48S BUT with a 0.5cm shorter top tube AND a 0.5cm shorter head tube (and therefore a lower handlebar position as I don’t want any spacer for „aesthetic“ reasons).

here the current setup (saddle has to go approx. 1cm back however):
Image
Image

The saddle has to go "back" approx. 1cm.
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:18 am 
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Posts: 728
Forget about top tube length as the seat tube angles of the F10 and C60 are different. Instead, compare the Stack and Reach of the two models. The Stack and Reach of the 51.5 F10 is closest to your 48S C60 and should not need any additional spacers. If you go with the size 50 F10 you may need approximately 0.7-1.0 cm of additional spacers (depending on the height of the headset cap) and a 120 mm stem. Exposed seat post should be about the same as your C60 with the size 50 F10.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:56 pm
Posts: 76
I think you should definitely look at geo of the 47cm F10 too. Seems to offer roughly same size as 50cm F10/48cm C60 but with shorter seat tube


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:07 pm
Posts: 64
TonyM wrote:
Hi,

I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.

My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)

For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.

So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.


But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?



Hi,

I quickly ran this through CAD and I think a 470 or 500 is going to work best for you.

Can you confirm the stem and bar model you plan on running on the F10?

If you can live with a spacer, you are going to gain a nice amount of seatpost on the 470mm.

Stem stack, angle and length are key here too.

Interested to know your saddle height, it looks about 680?

Shoot me an email with that info and I'll forward you a CAD of your fit on the 470 and 500 F10.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Posts: 845
SuperDomestique wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Hi,

I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.

My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)

For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.

So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.


But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?



Hi,

I quickly ran this through CAD and I think a 470 or 500 is going to work best for you.

Can you confirm the stem and bar model you plan on running on the F10?

If you can live with a spacer, you are going to gain a nice amount of seatpost on the 470mm.

Stem stack, angle and length are key here too.

Interested to know your saddle height, it looks about 680?

Shoot me an email with that info and I'll forward you a CAD of your fit on the 470 and 500 F10.


Thanks for your feedback. Just sent you an email :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:04 am
Posts: 599
Location: USA
I've been test riding a Pinarello F10 size 55cm for almost a month now. My F10 frame arrived yesterday and is 56cm.

What is unusual is I am 6'2". Just today, while on the size 55cm I was thinking how much I love this thing. It's just so incredibly agile and responsive. The 56cm will be a perfect fit, with the slightly longer wheel base and higher top tube. Stem will be 110, maybe 120mm and saddle is pretty much centered on the rails. For my height, It doesn't make any sense, but it works perfectly for me.

When I was ordering mine, it was suggested that I go one size smaller than my current bike. They were right.

Test rides are key to substantiating a proper numerical fit.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm
Posts: 791
TonyM wrote:
3Pio wrote:
TonyM wrote:
Hi,
I am currently riding a Colnago C60 and I will soon order a Pinarello F10 (same geometry as the F8 a AFAIK) Disk.
My C60 is a 48S (Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530) with a 110mm stem/ -8°. No spacer.
A quite nice fit for me (170cm, 78.5cm inseam)
For my F10 to come, I am thinking about getting the F10 in 51.5 which is quite similar to my C60 (Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535).
And then with a 110mm stem/-10° (or a 100mm) depending on how low/high it is really without spacer.
So that's my thoughts based on the figures of the geometry of the F10.
But who has a "real life" comparison between the C60 and the F8/F10 in terms of the geometry?
Is there anything I should consider when ordering my F10 now in terms of the right size? (i.e. should I go for a smaller size 50 or a bigger 53)?


Im riding 50S C60 and also have Pinarello FP3 in 53cm size. When i was buying C60 i had a chance to test ride Pinarello Dogma F8 in 51.5 cm. And it was fine with 120 mm stem (C60 and Fp3 i ride with 110mm stem), and 25mm spacers under the stem (C60 have 12 mm, FP3 about similar).

I would say that 51.5 will be almost same match to ur 48S.

I will pick between 51.5 and 50 (or 47) based on this things:

- Do u feel that u'll need even lower position of the handlebar?

- How is ur saddle positioned in the rails in this moment? Is it in center? Is it on the rear edge? Or maybe front edge?

But this one u can adjust also picking different setback on ur seatpost (there is two options, 0 and 20mm setback)

- How much saddle u want to be show

Make one detailed picture from the side of ur current setup :) so we can pick also based aesteticaly

And two more: One of the saddle position, one of the spacers part under the stem


Thanks for your feedback!

Yes I think 51.5cm or 50cm would be the best. But which one is the last question I have to figure out before I order it.

C60 48S: Reach: 383; Stack: 528; Top tube: 530
F10 51.5cm: Reach: 380; Stack: 527; Top tube: 535
F10 50cm: Reach: 374; Stack: 520; Top tube: 525

- Handlebar: I am actually fine with my current setup (C60 in 48S, 530mm top tube, 110mm/ -8° stem; no additional spacer). I don't have to go lower but I suppose that I could if I had to go lower (1cm lower with the F10 in 51.5cm and 1.25cm lower with the F10 in 50cm; with with a 110mm/-10° stem)

- Saddle: my saddle is in the centre at the moment but I have just swapped a new one and I have to set it approx. 1cm back

In terms of aesthetics, I like when you see "more" saddle seat post but on the other side a really too small frame (like the pro are using) just look "strange" to me.

So to me it looks like so in terms of the "figures"
- the F10 in 51.5cm would be like my current C60 in 48S BUT with a 0.5cm longer top tube AND a little less seatpost to see (-1.5cm).
And
- the F10 in 50cm would be like my current C60 in 48S BUT with a 0.5cm shorter top tube AND a 0.5cm shorter head tube (and therefore a lower handlebar position as I don’t want any spacer for „aesthetic“ reasons).

here the current setup (saddle has to go approx. 1cm back however):
Image
Image

The saddle has to go "back" approx. 1cm.
Image


Sorry for later reply :), but beeing a bit busy could not find the proper time.


Ok so lets compare different sizes and as other said, it's not that important to compare just top tube length:


1. 47 Size Dogma F10

- Seatpost exposed - C60 in 48S have 48 cm seatpost tube. F10 in this size have 45.5 cm seatpost tube. So on F10 u'll have 2.5 CM more seatpost showing then on ur 48S.

- Stack - C60 in 48S have 528 stack, on F10 stack is 525, so very little difference. For me will be good option to have possability to go lower a little bit if it's needed. On C60 u can do it with lower headset cup if it's needed. Dont now how high is HeadSet Cup of Dogma F10.But i'l prefer 5mm spacer under the stem (or 10mm). So This size in term of stack can work (will be probably the same as u'rs in this moment).

- Reach - C60 have 383 reach, F10 have 373 reach. On F10 u'll have 1 cm longer stem then on C60, so instead of 110mm, ull have 120mm on F10. I had a chance to ride 51.5mm Dogma F8 with 120mm stem (im riding 53 FP3 with 110mm and C60 with 110 in 50S), and actually i like it.

- Saddle Setback

U are using 12mm setback seatpost on C60, and C60 have 74.58 deg setpost angle.

F10 have 74 deg setpost angle. If we put the seatpost on the side for a while, 74.58 vs 74 deg seatpost angle, means if they both have same seatpost setback, on F10 the saddle will be about 6mm in the front to get the same sadde position over BB. Now let's calculate with seatpost setback

on F10 u have two options: 0 setback, and 20mm setback

- 0 setback

To gain the same position as u have now , u'll have to put the saddle 12mm more on the rear.Let's minus the 6 mm from the seatpost angle now, so the real position will be 6mm more in the rear then the position u have now

Since u said u need ur saddle 1 cm on the back, the final position will look 16 mm more on the rear

- 20mm setback

To gain the same position as u have now, u'll have to put the saddle 8mm in the front. Let's add now the 6mm from the seatpost angle. So the abosolute position will be 14 mm more in the front then u have it now to have the same position.

U said that the saddle need to go 1 cm in the back? So when u put ur saddle 1 cm on the back, the final position will look 4 mm more on the front then u have it now.

2. 50 Dogma F10

- Seatpost exposed - C60 in 48S have 48 cm seatpost tube. F10 in this size have 48 cm seatpost tube. So on F10 u'll same seatpost showing vs ur 48S.


- Stack - C60 in 48S have 528 stack, on F10 stack is 520. That mean on F10 u'll have 8mm spacers under the stem to have the same stem position. For me this look like ideal, since u have both possabilities for adjusting. Going lower if it's needed, also higher.

- Reach - C60 have 383 reach, F10 have 374 reach. Since u'll have 8mm spacers under the stem on F10, the reach will shorten even more (like another 1 or 2 mm). So On F10 u'll have 1 cm longer stem then on C60, so instead of 110mm, ull have 120mm on F10.

- Saddle Setback


Everything i wrote about 47 will be the same for 50 as well, since they have the same seatpost angle.



51.5 can work for u as well, but aesthetically i prefer 47 or 50 (u'll have 1.5 cm less seatpost exposed, just 1 mm difference with stack u have now, so consider it the same. Probably here u'll go with 110mm stem and 80mm handlebar reach instead of 75 u have now)

From those two (or three), i prefer 50, since u'll have option for going lower if it's needed (5 mm stack difference), and the seatpost showing look totaly ok. The stem length and seatback identical between those two sizes.

There is the chart which visually explain what is what (i got mistaken first by CF and CC values of seatpost tube length):

http://contenderbicycles.com/wp-content ... -Chart.gif


Hope i didnt make some mistakes in whole calculation, i'll try to find time to recheck later, but hope u are getting the idea to check with me again...

Greetings


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Posts: 845
Thanks @all for your inputs! :thumbup:

I went to my LBS and tried on the Retül bike the different sizing, also together with the different length of stem.

Basically the 47&50 and the 50&51.5 were really not that far apart IMHO. Both 3 sizes (47, 50 and 51.5) would have worked, however with a different length for the stem and a different seat post length above the frame.

As the C60 frame is more comfortable and the F10 more aero I ended up ordering a F10 Disk in size 50 in a more aero position. The stem will be a 120mm, -10°. No spacer (except the small headset cone from Pinarello above the frame). That should give me a slightly more aggressive position than on my C60.

Delivery time is 4 months approximately so that I have some time to work on my flexibility for my back now :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:14 am 
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Posts: 728
You seem to have done your due diligence in your research. What color way did you order? And what disc groupset do you intend to use on this build?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:59 am 
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fogman wrote:
You seem to have done your due diligence in your research. What color way did you order? And what disc groupset do you intend to use on this build?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The colour will be the "Red magma":

Image

I will use a Dura Ace Di2 9170 groupset in order also to ease the maintenance as I will have the same on my BMC RoadMachine02. I personally think that Shimano Dura Ace or Ultegra are the best groupsets when you are riding in wet/ rainy conditions.

The other parts will the a Pro Vibe stem and handlebar, either the Pro Vibe stem and Pro Vibe Aero handlebar or the Pro Stealth Evo handlebar, and most probably a Shimano C60 clincher wheelset.

I intend to use this bike when the weather is with showers and/or a light rain (hence the disc version).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:58 am 
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Posts: 327
i would have thought the the 51.5 would have been the ideal match for a 48S.

:noidea:


I'll take that C60 off your hands in 5 months. :idea:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:13 am 
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r_mutt wrote:
i would have thought the the 51.5 would have been the ideal match for a 48S.


Yes the F10 in 51.5 was quite identical to my C60 in 48S indeed :wink:
But because the C60 is more an allround bike, I though that I will go more aero with the F10.

I went therefore one size smaller in order to have a shorter head tube and to lower my position on the bike. No spacer on both bikes. And because the 50 has a shorter top tube I have to get a longer stem in 120mm. I could feel that the position on a size 47 without spacer would have been too extreme rides over 125km, at least for me.

It will definitely be an aero position on the F10 :P
I hope my (stiff) back will be ok with that...I have now 4 months in order to get my back more flexible... :mrgreen:


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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:13 am 


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