Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fasdflkjweorinjs
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by fasdflkjweorinjs

jfranci3 wrote:It was Stans goo. I tried putting it down, up, spinning it, etc. It was a tiny hole that wouldn't seal. Will go with Orange come spring.


I've used Cafe Latex, Stan's and Orange seal. The only one that's ever worked consistently is Orange seal.

Stickman
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by Stickman

jfranci3 wrote:It was Stans goo. I tried putting it down, up, spinning it, etc. It was a tiny hole that wouldn't seal. Will go with Orange come spring.


I'm likely going to end up with a Giant TCR with tubeless. I asked a bike mechanic about the Giant brand sealant, and was told it's repackaged Stan's Sealant, which he reckons is good stuff.

But from what I've heard and read about Orange, I think I'll use that from the get go.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Stan's doesn't solidify fast enough, nor does it solidify into a desirable form...it's inelastic and crumbly. It also dries out in the tire way too fast. It fails to seal smaller punctures at traditional road pressures (though people running high pressure are missing the point.) It fails to seal larger cuts.

Slime (original) is even worse. It only seems to seal the smallest punctures.

Slime STR (new formula) is OK at sealing and stays liquid for a long time in the tire. However it is very sticky, clogs its own applicator tips and if you get any on the outside of your rim, it takes way too much effort to clean off. Not worth the hassle.

Bontrager's sealant works well. You have to shake up the bottle a lot before use or the sediment will be one big glob at the bottom of the bottle. Probably second only to Orange Seal.

Orange Seal is the best without question. It is very thin in liquid form but starts to dry into a film immediately when spread thin. It'll stay liquid for 3-4 months with frequent riding and storage in a cool room/shed. I have a back-up wheelset on a bike that is half exposed to french doors with blinds. The wheel that was behind the blinds...the Stan's tape was faded and the Orange Seal was mostly dried up after 7-8 months, but some of it was almost like puree. The wheel that wasn't next to the door/window still had liquid sealant inside after that long...maybe 15mL left out of the original 40mL. My only complaint about Orange Seal is how bad it smells when it gets old.

Caffe Latex...haven't tried.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

caffe latex works well for me. Oranage seal I would try if I could get it big enough bottles for shop use. They both seem similar to me in how the seal.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Folk here have commented on how easy it is to mount mavic tyres onto the new ust rims by hand. not true at least for me. Mavic Open Pro UST rim and mavic yskion UST 25mm tyre with 2 layers of VAR tubeless tape. I needed levers. inflation was easy. I tried an IRC formula pro x guard and the same which I expected. both were as easy as each other. So mavic claims are little too bold for me and thats why this UST standard wont catch on it seems to be no better than some of the others. I am assuming mavic tight tollerances mean each rim and mavic tyre will be same. I suppose we'll see over time.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

This simply does not line up at all with any other experiences including my own. Mavic Yksion Pro USTs and Zipp Tangente Speed RT25s have been far and away the easiest tubeless tires for me to mount on both my ENVE SES 5.6 Disc and my Alto CCX40 Disc (hookless with tall rim walls.)

I believe someone from Glory Cycles posts here and they can attest to how easy those tires are to mount by hand. As these tires have just become available to the public in the last month or so, anecdotes from random cyclists are hard to come by. I’m almost positive that your experience will be the only one that claims the Yksions can’t mount easily by hand.

I have a pair of 28s coming from Europe in the next week or so and a spare wheel. I’ll make video then.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

What I know is what i found yesterday. I know what mavic claim. The seat and seal was easy but the bead at zero pressure came away with little force as well. I dont find using a lever to mount a hardship but I was expecting to be able to do it by hand. I have many ust rims and currently 4 yskion ust tyres so i will find out for sure. I have nothing against mavic I actually like this new rim and building with it.

Ill mount a different tyre on another rim tommorrow and report back. I want this to be as mavic say, every time but I also think it is not essential. I would prefer the bead to lock in more securely. I am used to having to really push tyres of rims.

MikeD
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by MikeD

bm0p700f wrote:Folk here have commented on how easy it is to mount mavic tyres onto the new ust rims by hand. not true at least for me. Mavic Open Pro UST rim and mavic yskion UST 25mm tyre with 2 layers of VAR tubeless tape. I needed levers. inflation was easy. I tried an IRC formula pro x guard and the same which I expected. both were as easy as each other. So mavic claims are little too bold for me and thats why this UST standard wont catch on it seems to be no better than some of the others. I am assuming mavic tight tollerances mean each rim and mavic tyre will be same. I suppose we'll see over time.


Could the thickness of the rim tape be the problem? Does Mavic recommend a specific rim strip/tape? What if you used UST wheels that didn't require a rim strip?


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Last edited by MikeD on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

It’s weird that the Open Pro UST has drilled eyelets. WTF.

Stickman
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by Stickman

Isn't one of the benefits of tubeless being able to run lower pressures for greater comfort and lower rolling resistance?

Giant's Gavia tubeless tyres have 85-125psi labelled on the sidewall. I'm a lightweight, so I only use 80psi in the rear and 70psi in the front on my 25s.

If 85psi is the lower limit, wouldn't you want to run 90 at least to cover some minor deflation?

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Stickman wrote:Isn't one of the benefits of tubeless being able to run lower pressures for greater comfort and lower rolling resistance?

Giant's Gavia tubeless tyres have 85-125psi labelled on the sidewall. I'm a lightweight, so I only use 80psi in the rear and 70psi in the front on my 25s.

If 85psi is the lower limit, wouldn't you want to run 90 at least to cover some minor deflation?


Rule of thumb - ignore the label printed on the sidewall of a tire. I have been training and racing between 60-80 psi for years with no issues. Remember, catastrophic failure are from over inflation.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

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MikeD
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by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:It’s weird that the Open Pro UST has drilled eyelets. WTF.


Yeah really. Maybe the guy that invented UST at Mavic left the company.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Var tubeless tape is quite thin. If it was any thinner it would be useless. Are people who find yskion tyre easy to mount by hand fitting them to mavic wheelsets which don't require rim tape or the open Pro RIM? It is possible the need for tubeless tape witht the op rims whether it be mavic or var means the tyres are a tighter fit.

So what rims are folk fitting there ust tyres too to have them mount by hand.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I’m fitting them to non-Mavic rims with two layers of generic powder coating masking tape. If anything, the ETRTO of my rims is probably a fraction of a mm larger than a Mavic UST rim.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Every rim is different to. I can mount irc's by hand to he'd Belgium rims for example. It would appear the mavic op rim might be a bit bigger than yours. Tight tyres on one rim maybe alot looser on an other but rims that are know fir easy tyre fitting can have have tyres that are impossible to mount. An example is the strada challange bianca. A very easy fit to velocity ailerons and other rims but try fitting one to a H plus son archetype well I gave up. The archetype is a well sized rim. So given you where not fitting the yskion ust tyres to a non mavic rim then no conclusion can be drawn about how they mount to the open pro ust rim.

I am off to the shop to mount a tyre I predict I don't have an outlier.

by Weenie


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