Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

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unlucky
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by unlucky

DOUG wrote:All of those questions are answered in this very thread. Not to mention the thousands of threads on other bike forums discussing the exact same thing.

You can lead a horse to water...

FWIW my LBS was very helpful with advice, even explaining how to properly tape the rim with examples. They also stock Orange seal and a range of different tyres.


I cycle everywhere, commuting to work even. I average 1 flat every 1500 miles. I do use a tire liner. Let me know when tubeless are there and I'll jump on full fledged.

jlok
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by jlok

Do you guys use soapy water to lubricate the beads during installation? Does it help?
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:Do you guys use soapy water to lubricate the beads during installation? Does it help?


It definitely helps if you are having trouble.

gewichtweenie
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by gewichtweenie

jlok wrote:Do you guys use soapy water to lubricate the beads during installation? Does it help?

Not absolutely necessary but can help lower friction for beads to pop on

Marin
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by Marin

I always wonder if soap residue can lead to blowoffs - I'm a bit paranoid after suffering one right *after* a fast descent - only damage was my hearing & the tire sidewall, but could have been far worse. Although I didn't even have to use soap in this case IIRC.

spud
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by spud

maybe this was covered, but I don't see any reason to ride tubeless on the road unless you are running big (28+) tires and appropriate low pressure. I tried them on 25s and they were way more hassle than they were worth - airing down between rides, and when you flat you still dump enough pressure that you need to stop and refill to prevent denting the rim. Interestingly, when I converted back to tubes with the same wheels, I think the Bontrager rim strip caused a number of pinch flats which under ordinary circumstances would not have happened. Got rid of the rim strip by using packing tape, and all is well again.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

spud your issue with tubeless you had an air leak that was the installer fault. tubeless when done right does not loose air any worse than normal clinchers do. sealant choice also affect how quickly the tyre seals. sometimes also there is less sealant in there than you think. in short if you tubeless right it works very well. some tyres are better than others too. if you do it wrong it can be hassle but that is the fitters fault not the technology. people are too ready to blame the product rather than there lack of knowledge.

Marin soapy water is not the cause of tyres blowing off. Tyres blow off because of a bead defect/damage or the fit is not longer tight.

I have 25mm tubeless tyres on the bike I am taking to italy tomorrow. The ride is lovely. They are schwalbe one's though and they are very puncture prone in the wet. I have packed some mavic yskions just in case. I am currently trying new tyres just too see.

unlucky - tubeless is there. i ride daily and I almost never flat now but that is down to tyre choice.

youngs_modulus
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by youngs_modulus

Marin wrote:I always wonder if soap residue can lead to blowoffs - I'm a bit paranoid after suffering one right *after* a fast descent - only damage was my hearing & the tire sidewall, but could have been far worse. Although I didn't even have to use soap in this case IIRC.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with bm0p700f: while soap residue won't cause a solidly-mounted tire to blow off, it could allow a marginal tire to blow off when it otherwise wouldn't. bm0p700f is totally right that tension in the bead is the main thing keeping a tubeless clincher from blowing off its rim, but friction between the bead and the rim provides a little extra margin in addition to the retention the bead provides. A little extra margin isn't a bad thing at all.

If a marginal tire were going to blow off due to soap residue, I'd expect it to do so on the first wet ride after mounting. Rain water could reach the tire/bead interface and recreate the same slippery conditions that allowed the tire to mount in the first place. It might make sense to let such a tire seal and dry overnight, but then deflate it (mostly) and dip the tire and rim in the bathtub a few times. The capillary effect will pull water between the tire and rim, reconstituting (and diluting) the original soapy film. Rinsing your wheel a few times will help get rid of the soap.

That said, I'm not losing any sleep over soapy tires blowing off. If a tire is tight enough that you need soapy water to mount it, you're unlikely to blow it off. If it's loose enough that you don't need soapy water to mount it, then there's no soapy residue to worry about.

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Miller
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by Miller

How do people persuade tubeless tyres to blow off the rim? The fit is tight, the bead is strong as hell: I don't get it.

Italian cotton carcass tyre with a latex tube, that's a whole different story.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Miller wrote:How do people persuade tubeless tyres to blow off the rim? The fit is tight, the bead is strong as hell: I don't get it.

Italian cotton carcass tyre with a latex tube, that's a whole different story.

Loose fitting beads like the new 25mm Mavic UST tires and hookless rims = blowoff at 110psi or so. Then again why would anyone run that combination above 80-85psi?

Marin
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by Marin

Miller wrote:How do people persuade tubeless tyres to blow off the rim? The fit is tight, the bead is strong as hell: I don't get it.

Italian cotton carcass tyre with a latex tube, that's a whole different story.


It was 35mm Compass Bon Jon Pass made by Panaracer and rated as tubeless, on a Light Bicycle Carbon rim with center channel and bead shelves.

The carcass is even more supple than the one in Italian cotton tires. In fact, the sidewall had 7 tiny holes that I had to patch after the incident.

I'm pretty sure the tire was mounted correctly and I have no idea what made it come off.

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Miller
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by Miller

Fair points, I have no experience with either hookless rims or Compass tyres. Although the larger the tyre volume is, the more force it will exert for any given pressure by comparison to a narrower tyre.

Marin
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by Marin

Sorry for being unclear, the rim had bead hooks too. Pressure slightly under 3 bar.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

As I said it is loose fitting tyres that can blow of we agree that it is not really the soapy water that is the cause it is the loose marginal lock in the first place. When fitting tubeless tyres I think it wise to deflate and see how firmly the bead is locked to the rim. You should have to force it off.

simplemind
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by simplemind

bm0p700f wrote:As I said it is loose fitting tyres that can blow of we agree that it is not really the soapy water that is the cause it is the loose marginal lock in the first place. When fitting tubeless tyres I think it wise to deflate and see how firmly the bead is locked to the rim. You should have to force it off.


Agreed, if it goes on easy, especially w/o soapy water, then it's suspect in my mind.

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