Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
peted76
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 pm

by peted76

I think anyone who's losing too much air out of their tyres running tubeless is doing it wrong (not that anyone would like to admit it). It's quite obviously not the same as MTB tubeless, the bits all look the same, the fluid reads the same on the label, but it just clearly doesn't work just porting it all over.

I believe I've made every mistake which can be made in the two or three years running road tubeless, call me dumb but hey I've learnt from it all.

After trying three different types, I believe MOST people who've had bad experiences with road tubeless are probably using the wrong sealant. And that's an issue with the marketing and distribution of the sealant.. I mean why would anyone know Stans is rubbish for road.. it's been the defacto 'tubeless' kit in my local bike shop area for years.. Jeeze a non cycling relative brought me a 'bottle of slime' (same as used on car tyres) from a supermarket a while ago...

The Bontrager sealant I use, needs one hell of a shake of the bottle before use and lasts me a good four months without needing a top up. I use exactly 40ml in each 25mm tyre and usually run them at anywhere between 80 and 110psi. In the past 12months I'd guess 3/5 times I won't notice I've had a puncture until I get home, I always check pressure on these occasions and I can't think of a time I've dropped more than 8psi. 2/5 times I'll notice a puncture by getting a bit of spray on my legs.. usually I'll slow a little and it seals within seconds.

Nowadays unless I'm going somewhere where I need to be self sufficient, I don't carry a tube with me I carry a small bottle of about 60ml of sealant and CO2 and that's about it (I really should get a decent pump and ditch the co2).

by Weenie


jever98
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm

by jever98

Question for the Dynaplug users: is there any risk to a carbon rim when you push in the plug? I just watched a video on the system and it seems like you have to push it in quite forcefully. Wondering how that works out, especially if the tire is completely flat.
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Miller
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

I've been running road tubeless since 2015 with no previous experience of tubeless. I too have made quite a few mistakes along the way but on the whole it's been a very, very positive experience. In 2015 finding another person running tubeless was rare, this year it's common.

The industry is learning along the way, I think. I actually like that aspect because there is visible development in tubeless systems whereas normal clinchers seem to be as good as they're going to get. Recent trends in bike tech like discs, gravel bikes, wider tyres, lower pressures, thru axles: they all favour tubeless as a supporting technology. Race tyres which are narrow and high pressure remain the biggest ask for tubeless in terms of sealing, there again I have two years of tubeless on my TT bike and have recorded what for me are good results. The one time I had an air loss on my TT bike my race was done but enough pressure remained for me to get back to base without stopping or riding on the rim.

I will not be going back to clinchers.

kulivontot
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm

by kulivontot

Ok road tubeless experts, I've been running schwalbe pro ones Stan's alpha 340 rims for years with no problem.
I however have nothing but issues with Vittoria corsa speeds. One tire will air up and hold pressure for about a week before it goes flat the second fits looser, has leaked sealant from "sweating" through the sidewall, but also bubbles through the rim tire interface and loses pressure entirely within a day. Am I doing something wrong or is my second Vittoria tire defective?
My conclusion is that any time air escapes between the bead and the rim there's a problem with the tire when used on tubeless specific rims.

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Miller
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

It's Vittoria's first tubeless tyre, it's promoted for race use only, everything I hear about it is that it has super low rolling resistance but is fragile and finicky.

If you have a specific issue with the tyre/rim interface try adding another layer of tape.

Lewn777
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

peted76 wrote:I think anyone who's losing too much air out of their tyres running tubeless is doing it wrong (not that anyone would like to admit it). It's quite obviously not the same as MTB tubeless, the bits all look the same, the fluid reads the same on the label, but it just clearly doesn't work just porting it all over.

I believe I've made every mistake which can be made in the two or three years running road tubeless, call me dumb but hey I've learnt from it all.

After trying three different types, I believe MOST people who've had bad experiences with road tubeless are probably using the wrong sealant. And that's an issue with the marketing and distribution of the sealant.. I mean why would anyone know Stans is rubbish for road.. it's been the defacto 'tubeless' kit in my local bike shop area for years.. Jeeze a non cycling relative brought me a 'bottle of slime' (same as used on car tyres) from a supermarket a while ago...

The Bontrager sealant I use, needs one hell of a shake of the bottle before use and lasts me a good four months without needing a top up. I use exactly 40ml in each 25mm tyre and usually run them at anywhere between 80 and 110psi. In the past 12months I'd guess 3/5 times I won't notice I've had a puncture until I get home, I always check pressure on these occasions and I can't think of a time I've dropped more than 8psi. 2/5 times I'll notice a puncture by getting a bit of spray on my legs.. usually I'll slow a little and it seals within seconds.

Nowadays unless I'm going somewhere where I need to be self sufficient, I don't carry a tube with me I carry a small bottle of about 60ml of sealant and CO2 and that's about it (I really should get a decent pump and ditch the co2).

Cheers, because Bontrager is actually a sealant I can get my hands on. :D

peted76
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 pm

by peted76

kulivontot wrote:Ok road tubeless experts, I've been running schwalbe pro ones Stan's alpha 340 rims for years with no problem.
I however have nothing but issues with Vittoria corsa speeds. One tire will air up and hold pressure for about a week before it goes flat the second fits looser, has leaked sealant from "sweating" through the sidewall, but also bubbles through the rim tire interface and loses pressure entirely within a day. Am I doing something wrong or is my second Vittoria tire defective?
My conclusion is that any time air escapes between the bead and the rim there's a problem with the tire when used on tubeless specific rims.


I had a similar issue with a Schwalbe Pro One, the tyre 'seeped air' this was hardly noticeable at first, I thought I was leaking air around the bead, reseated, checked for debris etc.... it wasn't until I wiped a wet cloth along the sidewall, only to see the water 'bubble' with air.
I think this must have been one of the earlier batches of production tyres from Schwable as I remember there were very little stock available at the time.. it was clearly a defect. I can't remember the exact details but I was told by someone at Schwalbe that this was 'normal' and is why they state their tyres need sealant, however I ended up sending it back to shop and getting it replaced in the end. Only one of the eight odd tyres I've been though have done this.

I'd suspect you'll need to put a 'load' of sealant in them, wiggle it about a bit and make your own 'seal' within the tyre to be effective. Which IMO is a bit rubbish..(or maybe it's not rubbish, maybe it's an effective way of getting a lighter casing and tyre - it's supposed to be about 205grams right?) Either way it's another example of the tubeless 'industry' still working itself out.

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cwdzoot
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by cwdzoot

Been working with the new Mavic UST wheels and super impressed. Did a few experiments You can inflatee easily with a floor pump, you can install and remove the tire by hand. The combination of the rim and tire been made to measure makes it a lot more convenient.

See my video here: https://youtu.be/20h1LVfn0E0
Blog: http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/glorycycles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

simplemind
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:06 pm

by simplemind

cwdzoot wrote:Been working with the new Mavic UST wheels and super impressed. Did a few experiments You can inflatee easily with a floor pump, you can install and remove the tire by hand. The combination of the rim and tire been made to measure makes it a lot more convenient.

See my video here: https://youtu.be/20h1LVfn0E0


I've had the same setup experience with the Mavic Allroad's. They sealed up first time with Gravel Kings. Very little time on these, but so far, no complaints.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

kulivontot wrote:Ok road tubeless experts, I've been running schwalbe pro ones Stan's alpha 340 rims for years with no problem.
I however have nothing but issues with Vittoria corsa speeds. One tire will air up and hold pressure for about a week before it goes flat the second fits looser, has leaked sealant from "sweating" through the sidewall, but also bubbles through the rim tire interface and loses pressure entirely within a day. Am I doing something wrong or is my second Vittoria tire defective?
My conclusion is that any time air escapes between the bead and the rim there's a problem with the tire when used on tubeless specific rims.

And what sealant are you using?

dvq
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

jever98 wrote:Question for the Dynaplug users: is there any risk to a carbon rim when you push in the plug? I just watched a video on the system and it seems like you have to push it in quite forcefully. Wondering how that works out, especially if the tire is completely flat.


For road you just need to buy the soft nose tips if your kit doesn't already come with them. The older sharp ones could potentially hit the rim tape if you were running super low pressures for some reason. I've successfully cut off the inside of the tip and had the plug retain the seal for a thousand miles after (retired the tire after worn).

If the tire is completely flat -- you'll end up pinching the tire to get it to be more taut first, but then you've got an issue of making sure you seat the bead while out on the road.

The very first time I've ever used my Dynaplug I took a video -- the tire had about 30-35psi left of air in it after my puncture. It looks like more effort than it was because I wasn't familiar with using it, I was on a sloped road underpass, recording, holding the bike up, and pressing the plug in all at the same time: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUS0xojlPYq/

I've personally since moved over to the Dynaplug racer because I like the grip on it more. http://www.dynaplug.com/racer.html

jever98
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm

by jever98

Thanks! Makes sense.
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madik
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:44 pm

by madik

Anything else recommended other than Orange sealant? Can't find it on the usual shops like bike24. Have mixed results with Stan's sealant so something more useable for road would be great.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bontrager's is good. Just make sure you shake it very hard for a while so the solid particles get unstuck from the bottom. One good shake won't do it in my experience.

Slime's new STR formulation seems okay. I'm testing it out, but oddly haven't gotten any punctures in the 1000mi since. It's very sticky and thick compared to Orange Seal and makes injection a tiny bit more annoying. Since it's so thick it also needs a little bit more to spread around the tire. I normally use 30mL with Orange Seal, but I use 45mL with Slime.

Honestly the best thing to do is to order a large 32oz bottle of Orange Seal from overseas. It'll last you a very long time.

by Weenie


Lewn777
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

cwdzoot wrote:Been working with the new Mavic UST wheels and super impressed. Did a few experiments You can inflatee easily with a floor pump, you can install and remove the tire by hand. The combination of the rim and tire been made to measure makes it a lot more convenient.

See my video here: https://youtu.be/20h1LVfn0E0


I think this is they way I'll go in the future. Next wheelset UST for sure.

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