Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

[dvq]

All of those questions are answered in this very thread. Not to mention the thousands of threads on other bike forums discussing the exact same thing.

You can lead a horse to water...

FWIW my LBS was very helpful with advice, even explaining how to properly tape the rim with examples. They also stock Orange seal and a range of different tyres.

I cycle everywhere, commuting to work even. I average 1 flat every 1500 miles. I do use a tire liner. Let me know when tubeless are there and I'll jump on full fledged.

Before tubeless I average about 1 flat per 500-600 mi, there's just a lot of glass on my routes to and from work. In the last year I've averaged 1 "flat" every 3,000 mi -- each one was solved in 3 minutes with a dynaplug and a quick pump. Those were mostly just punctures that couldn't be healed due to how thin the Pro Ones have been. I have yet to get a puncture that wasn't sealed with any other tires.

[uraz]

Definitely the best method of mounting tubeless tires is to use something like Schwalbe Tire Booster or its ghetto counterpart (plastic bottle with 2 presta valves and rubber hose with clamp).



Sometimes soap + sealant = latex solidification.

[dvq]

dvq's tire was an X-Guard and it failed the exact same way. Normally I would chalk it up to a bad luck, but both our tires failed at the bead, a part of the tire that is completely shielded from pebbles, rocks, uneven pavement, etc. by the walls of the rim itself.

Hmmmm ....

if the tyres failed at the bead as you say, and if you and your mate did not damage them when installing, did you contact the vendors who sold you the tyres to you and your friend and did you ask for a full refund? ....

who were the vendors, and what was their response?

I haven't bothered talking to / asking for a replacement / asking for a refund because the tires came directly from Japan. I've now removed the other IRC X-Guard and moved on to try the next tubeless tire. I suppose I could ask for a refund but I sort of laugh about people who go into bike stores asking for refunds when their tire flats. I understand this isn't the same situation, but I've noted how both of our tires failed in the same exact manner and moved on.

For reference, here is the photo. Excuse the sealant on the outside, it sat in a puddle of sealant for a bit and dried off. You can see the long cut in the case above the bead itself and then the knife was used to show how large the actual hole that went all the way through is.

[TobinHatesYou]

I'm in the same boat. I don't feel like it's going to be worth it to me to send these tires across the pond just so IRC can try out some mostly useless forensic analysis. My tire's bead isn't split quite as badly as dvq's, but it also failed within 120 miles of use rather than his 800 miles. Mine shows as just a 3mm lateral cut in the same spot under the 2 ribbed lines on the sidewall. There was no additional splitting around the cut, but again, that's probably because the time to failure on mine was much, much shorter.

It's just something IRC and other Formula Pro tubeless owners need to pay attention to. If it happens to others, then IRC's definitely going to need to issue a recall and redesign the tire.

[Marin]

I want to add that I had lost interest in road tubeless because I just don't flat enough on the road, maybe about once per year.

However, riding on gravel more now, I'm risking the pinch flats that tubeless completely eliminated from mountainbiking, so I'm experimenting again.

[uraz]

I personally don't care that much about puncture protection though eliminating pinch flats is welcomed. I even don't add sealant when it's dried until I really have to, but tubeless tires on road bike ride so nice that i can't resist using them.

[dim]

I rode my 1st Audax yesterday and I'm using the 2017 IRC Formula Pro RBCC tubeless road tyres .... very windy day, and as luck would have it, I had a puncture on the front wheel

Orange sealant was gushing out, and panic mode set in .... I placed my thumb over the hole and after a few seconds, the puncture sealed. The tyre lost a lot of air, and most of the sealant but I pumped it up with a small hand pump and it was fine (I checked this morning, and it is still fine) .... I will top up the sealant later today

I carried a spare tyre (clincher) and 2 inner tubes but no CO2 .... If I do need to add a tube I think that I may need the CO2 to seat the tubeless tyre as my handpump is small

that is my only concern, but I will carry a clincher tyre and tube as spares on long rides .... definately worth getting tubeless IMHO .... these roll fast :
https://www.strava.com/activities/1240402655

[simplemind]

https://www.strava.com/activities/1240402655

SS of 295...damn!

[uraz]

When you put a tube inside there will be no problem using even smallest hand pump. The only problem is old sealant leaking everywhere - good to have some paper towel in back pocket.

[simplemind]

When you put a tube inside there will be no problem using even smallest hand pump. The only problem is old sealant leaking everywhere - good to have some paper towel in back pocket.

Will also add, the removal of the stem can be a problem if you tightened down the stem nut too tight to remove by hand and don't have pliers available. Ask me how I know!

[mpulsiv]

How do people persuade tubeless tyres to blow off the rim? The fit is tight, the bead is strong as hell: I don't get it.

Italian cotton carcass tyre with a latex tube, that's a whole different story.

Isn’t that he root cause of tire blow off on Italian carcass (Veloflex) is due to the fact that we ignore ETRTO? In other word, mounting 25mm cotton tire on 20mm+ width of a rim.

[TobinHatesYou]

The primary reason is poor quality control. Rims that have actual measurements under 622 ETRTO and tires with sidewalls that stretch beyond it. Then add track pumps that have inaccurate gauges and people pumping up their tires beyond max rated pressures, or failing to realize that their 25mm tires have ballooned to 28mm on certain rims.

[commfire]

A bit off topic but I can't figure why no tire manufacturer hasn't tried to improve on Tufo's "tubeless tubular" technology.
Eliminates pinch flats, no tire/bead interface to worry about, only requires sealant when flat and a dynaplug could be used as a back up and weight weenie to boot.
If someone could design a tubeless tubular that had a CRR even close to current top tires I would be the first in line to try it.

[jlok]

btw I have a question... tho I think I got the answer already... but still wanna seek your advice.

I got Roval CLX 32 / 50 tubeless wheels. it's 21mm int width and the center canal is flat rather than round.

I tried to put on Padrone 28mm TLR tire and spent two CO2 cannisters but still couldnt get it seated. Other tires are fine like Pro One 25mm (effectively 28). I put two wrap of yellow tapes, stan's tubeless valve, stan's sealant during installation. I also tried using Schwalbe Tubeless Booster (made by Airace I think) but the pressure was not enough. I can't remove the valve core as the bead will drop if pressue is too low... (bad rim design)

What should I do to get the PAdrone seated?

[dvq]

btw I have a question... tho I think I got the answer already... but still wanna seek your advice.

I got Roval CLX 32 / 50 tubeless wheels. it's 21mm int width and the center canal is flat rather than round.

I tried to put on Padrone 28mm TLR tire and spent two CO2 cannisters but still couldnt get it seated. Other tires are fine like Pro One 25mm (effectively 28). I put two wrap of yellow tapes, stan's tubeless valve, stan's sealant during installation. I also tried using Schwalbe Tubeless Booster (made by Airace I think) but the pressure was not enough. I can't remove the valve core as the bead will drop if pressue is too low... (bad rim design)

What should I do to get the PAdrone seated?

So usually I find this happens when you've got a rim/tire combination that's REALLY tight, whatever you're using simply doesn't have the flow capacity to get enough air in there to overcome the sharp stepped section of the rim bed. Yes, it is somewhat to do with bad rim design, but it could also just be a tight bead due to bad tolerances.

Since you've tried to get some sort of lubrication in there to make a seal, and you've tried a high volume pressure blast through your valve -- I suspect your valve simply isn't allowing enough flow. I would experiment more with removing the valve core, you may either need a higher volume bladder than the tire booster or an actual air compressor. Can you pump your high volume bladder while dumping air in? I'd try pumping that thing up to the max rated, dumping the air in without the valve, and than pumping with everything still attached until the bead seats. Second step would be a real air compressor, last step would be just to write those tires off as unworkable with your current rim bed.

Alternatives would be a schrader to presta adapter and a gas station compressor if you don't want to buy your own and see if it works any better.