Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

[morganb]

If you watch the GCN video on the Mavic UST road tubeless, the big point of the system is the ease of mounting /dismounting the tires (no tire levers required). That's the biggest beef with current tubeless systems. If you put some other brand of tire on a Mavic rim, you lose that main feature. Mavic tires have kevlar beads, stretchier than the carbon beads of other tires.

Time is going to tell on the mavic tyres. a stretchy bead is not normally a good thing with tubeless as it can cause some refttining issues. I am sure Mavic are aware of this and therefore the bead is not actually stretchy.

Why has using a tyre lever become so difficult? Cycling it self is quite a difficult thing and yet people can't cope with using a tyre lever anymore. I remember one night with a Pacenti SL23 V1 (not known for easy tyre fitting) and a schwalbe one tubeless that let me down my lever breaking when removing the tyre (or some other similar problem maybe I forgot them) and having to remove by hand fit the tube (as there was no choice) and remount the tyre by hand. I managed somehow even though it was a cold dark january night. This is an example of tyre that I dont think is much good as it let me down (literally) like clockwork.

Why does anyone want to take the tyre off and clean the sealant out. Mistake!!!!!!!!!!! a tubeless tyre is meant to be left installed for the life of the tyre. you remove it to replace it. the problem with tubeless is not the technology or the ease or difficulty of tyre fitting. It is simply end users making life hard for themselves.

yes presta valves get bent but if it breaks as they do sometimes then you simply put a new one in. Again where is exactly is the problem with that. all you need is a valve core and a valve core remover, it's easier than changing a inner tube.

Given I fit tubeless tyres every day with levers I would add, most of the time I can say it take no longer to fit the tyre than it does a clincher with tubes. What take the time is fitting the rim tape tape, fitting the valve, first inflation to seat the tyre, injecting the sealant and finally the second inflation to refinflate it after the sealant is added. Mavic'seasy UST system will not speed up the process as the tyre fitting time as it is already quick, and that with every tubeless tyre on almost every rim that I have tried. I think this is the real reason why it wont catch on as many of the problems identified in this thread are not problems in my eyes and in many cases are simply inexperience.

Although having tyres that mount by hand is nice so it is not unwelcome either.

Strangely I've had great experience with Pro Ones on V2 SL23s. Mounted by hand, inflated with a floor pump, haven't had any issues since.

[Miller]

About the valves, valves for tubeless all feature replaceable valve cores. Having a few valve cores spare is a good idea.

The tubeless workshop does feature more tyre 'stuff' than with clinchers, on the other hand roadside bad experiences are greatly reduced. That's a deal I can live with.

[bm0p700f]

that is one thing the schwalbes are good at apart from letting me down is easy set up on near enough every rim I have tried them on. Thus demonstrating mavic new ust system is not actually that essential. Schwalbe have worked it out as have a variety of rim manufacturers.

Miller preicely. but the tubeless workshop actually has the same tools. A track pump, valve core remover, good flat tyre levers but the addition of soapy water and sealant. more than that is not normally needed. a compressor can be useful sometimes but the retailer of the wheel you buy should be able to tell you what tubeless tyres setup easily or not. if they cant find another retailer. I suppose I have an advantage of having played around with this for a few years now and have the pitfalls to avoid along the way.

[jfranci3]

I have clean the orange seal off my rims using nothing but water and a paper towel. Exactly zero work. Do you worry about your tire vavles on your tubes? These are ridiculous arguments.

Ridiculous??
Presta valve stems get bent so easily. I go through 4-5 tubes/year, so the bad ones get cycled out. With tubeless, you're adding air every ride vs once/week and the stems stay installed. They need replacing every now and then.
On the sealant, the web is full of threads about what a PITA it is cleaning sealant out of tires. I haven't tried it yet.

My tubeless set ups lose air at the same rate as a butyl tube, if not slower.

Hmmm.... I lose 10psi / .5 bar every other day F& R. 6 -> 5.5bar on 25c Sch Ones, DT Swiss R32 AL rims, DT Swiss tape & stems, and Stan's goo. Maybe my valve stems aren't sealing enough.

[DOUG]

I have clean the orange seal off my rims using nothing but water and a paper towel. Exactly zero work. Do you worry about your tire vavles on your tubes? These are ridiculous arguments.

Ridiculous??
Presta valve stems get bent so easily. I go through 4-5 tubes/year, so the bad ones get cycled out. With tubeless, you're adding air every ride vs once/week and the stems stay installed. They need replacing every now and then.
On the sealant, the web is full of threads about what a PITA it is cleaning sealant out of tires. I haven't tried it yet.

My tubeless set ups lose air at the same rate as a butyl tube, if not slower.

Hmmm.... I lose 10psi / .5 bar every other day F& R. 6 -> 5.5bar on 25c Sch Ones, DT Swiss R32 AL rims, DT Swiss tape & stems, and Stan's goo. Maybe my valve stems aren't sealing enough.

Stans is your problem IMO. Use Orange Seal and see how that goes.

My tubeless setup loses about the same amount of air as a standard butyl tube setup, and far less than lightweight thin walled tubes or latex.

[morganb]

I'm also using Orange Seal by the way.

[bm0p700f]

the leak will be the valve or the taping perhaps the hole in the tape at the valve is too big. I loose little air in mine. The issue wont be the brand of selant you are using. Some tyres also loose more air than others byt 10 psi a day is alot. This is normally the cause one that is elimated you are left with the tyre/rim.

[TobinHatesYou]

My tubeless set ups lose air at the same rate as a butyl tube, if not slower.

I’d say my tubeless setups lose air at about twice the rate of a light butyl tube like a Conti Race Light 28. About 3psi a day vs 1.5psi. I have never bent a Presta valve core. Also replacement valve cores are cheap enough that I wouldn’t care if I did anyway. What a non-argument.

http://www.jensonusa.com/Kenda-Presta-Valve-Cores

[Stickman]

Giant's Youtube channel has some tubeless-specific videos, including what to do if you get a large gash in your tyre. Just glue a patch on the outside of the tyre:

https://youtu.be/g6E-33WlYvI?t=31s


I imagine that would make for a bumpy ride home.

[Miller]

Giant's Youtube channel has some tubeless-specific videos, including what to do if you get a large gash in your tyre. Just glue a patch on the outside of the tyre:

Interesting. They're basically supergluing a bit of tyre carcass to the outside. I've never considered that as a solution, maybe I should. What has caused me grief on a few mainly offroad situations is a sidewall slash, I wonder if it would work for that as a get-you-home fix.

[jfranci3]

Went for a ride in the wet today. Got a pin hole size puncture in the center of the tire that never fully sealed. To the sealant's credit, I got about 3-4min of riding/stopped before the tire was down too far. I hadn't re-goo'd the tire in 2mo and it seemed like there was plenty of juice, as I'd see the occasional bit come out. Do you suppose it was just too wet?

[dim]

Went for a ride in the wet today. Got a pin hole size puncture in the center of the tire that never fully sealed. To the sealant's credit, I got about 3-4min of riding/stopped before the tire was down too far. I hadn't re-goo'd the tire in 2mo and it seemed like there was plenty of juice, as I'd see the occasional bit come out. Do you suppose it was just too wet?

which brand of sealant are you using?

[dim]

Went for a ride in the wet today. Got a pin hole size puncture in the center of the tire that never fully sealed. To the sealant's credit, I got about 3-4min of riding/stopped before the tire was down too far. I hadn't re-goo'd the tire in 2mo and it seemed like there was plenty of juice, as I'd see the occasional bit come out. Do you suppose it was just too wet?

double post

[TobinHatesYou]

A wet road shouldn't have any effect on a tire's ability to seal. What makes something like Orange Seal solidify is the pressure forcing it through a tiny hole. Water won't just seep in when it's 80psi vs atmospheric pressure. If you want to try it yourself, poke a hole in a tire while it's submerged in a tub. I bet you it will actually seal faster because of the effective pressure inside vs outside will be in the Goldilocks zone.

[jfranci3]

It was Stans goo. I tried putting it down, up, spinning it, etc. It was a tiny hole that wouldn't seal. Will go with Orange come spring.