Cannondale Supersix - HM v Black Inc frames

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Post Reply
573
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

I'm considering swapping the frame on my Supersix, which is currently a non-HM one. The original plan was to find a used HM frame and move everything over. I may strip the paint first too and just add back a ghosted Cannondale logo on the downtube and some clearcoat.

However, this seems to be what a Black Inc frame essentially is unless I'm mistaken? I had in my head that the Black Incs were even lighter due to nano-tech carbon, but researching now they seem to just be a 'standard' High Modulus frame with a unique paint job?

Has something changed? Did they used to be a step up and therefore lighter than a normal HM frame? If so what year frames should I be looking for?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Lelandjt
Posts: 817
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

by Lelandjt

The first gen frames used some nano tube resin or something special. I remember we got one in the shop when DA9000 was just coming out. I think when C-dale redesigned the Super Six Evo the Black Inc became a normal Hi-Mod. However, is a 1st gen Black Inc better than a 2nd gen Hi-Mod? Probably not.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Lelandjt is right. The first generation Evo Black Inc had lighter frames using Nano Carbon but since the 2016 model year Evo redesign, the Black Inc use the same Hi-Mod frames as other Hi-Mod Evos as the weight saving wasn't worth the much higher production cost just to sell a few Black Inc bikes. I think they just wanted to see how low they could go and to have the title of 'lightest production bike' at the time.

I had a 2013 Black Inc with the Nano carbon. Stock without pedals, my 56 was 11.25lbs, pretty impressive for a stock bike built with no-nonsense normal components... but now I have a 2nd generation Evo Hi-Mod. New frames are heavier (than the old Black Inc but also a little bit more than the old Hi-Mods) but the new forks are lighter so overall the 2016/17/18 Hi-Mods are a tad lighter than the old Hi-Mods, I think a tad heavier overall than the old Nano carbon Black Inc... But more important than a few grams, the newer ones have a noticably stiffer BB area plus the old ones had just enough clearance for 25mm tires while the new ones can fit more modern wider rims with bigger tires. New ones are also supposedly more confortable with the skinnier seatposts, they are confortable but the older ones were also very confortable IMO.

573
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

573 wrote:Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

It should since they both use the same headset bearings...

573
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

And as far as I can tell the geometry of the fork has remained the same hasn't it?

NiFTY
Posts: 1493
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

I have a 16 fork on a 13 evo. Can't tell a diffetemce ride wise otherwise than slightly more compliance - maybe.
Evo 4.9kg SL3 6.64kg Slice RS 8.89kg viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Fork rake is the same (except on bikes size 44) but the fork height might have changed a little. Geometry has been adjusted for 700x25 tires, old ones were based on 23's. In theory that could mean a 1mm difference... but I have no clue if the different frame and fork designs have the lower bearing higher or lower... If it's not the same, it must be close.

garjo
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:41 pm
Location: ITALY

by garjo

573 wrote:Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

Yes, it's compatible, mine is almost 60 grams lighter than original fork with some better compliance
Image
My 4,93 kg Supersix Evo HM: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=30

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364

573
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

That looks great. 8)

sussexhills
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:31 am

by sussexhills

Dan Gerous wrote:Lelandjt is right. The first generation Evo Black Inc had lighter frames using Nano Carbon but since the 2016 model year Evo redesign, the Black Inc use the same Hi-Mod frames as other Hi-Mod Evos as the weight saving wasn't worth the much higher production cost just to sell a few Black Inc bikes. I think they just wanted to see how low they could go and to have the title of 'lightest production bike' at the time.


This is correct. I own a 2015 Nano Black Inc and they are lighter than the standard black inc ‘branded’ hi-mods since the 2016 S6 redesign. Actual weight for my Nano in size 56 is 707g frame and 288g fork so an astonishing 995g system weight. I picked up the frameset half price nearly two years ago but there are still a few of these knocking about on eBay every so often if you wanted to pick up lighter Nano frame.

garjo
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:41 pm
Location: ITALY

by garjo

Evo nano ad, lighter than an iPad
Image
My 4,93 kg Supersix Evo HM: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=30

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364

573
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

Evo Nano? What the hell's one of those?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



garjo
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:41 pm
Location: ITALY

by garjo

573 wrote:Evo Nano? What the hell's one of those?

The evo nano would be the black inc evo till 2015, the frame displayed is a normal evo hm
My 4,93 kg Supersix Evo HM: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=30

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364

Post Reply