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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:06 pm 
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I'm considering swapping the frame on my Supersix, which is currently a non-HM one. The original plan was to find a used HM frame and move everything over. I may strip the paint first too and just add back a ghosted Cannondale logo on the downtube and some clearcoat.

However, this seems to be what a Black Inc frame essentially is unless I'm mistaken? I had in my head that the Black Incs were even lighter due to nano-tech carbon, but researching now they seem to just be a 'standard' High Modulus frame with a unique paint job?

Has something changed? Did they used to be a step up and therefore lighter than a normal HM frame? If so what year frames should I be looking for?

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> '13 Supersix Evo Red 5.98kg
> '17 CAAD12 Disc 8.16kg


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:56 pm 
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The first gen frames used some nano tube resin or something special. I remember we got one in the shop when DA9000 was just coming out. I think when C-dale redesigned the Super Six Evo the Black Inc became a normal Hi-Mod. However, is a 1st gen Black Inc better than a 2nd gen Hi-Mod? Probably not.


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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:56 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Location: Physically in Montréal, but my mind is in the Pyrénées
Lelandjt is right. The first generation Evo Black Inc had lighter frames using Nano Carbon but since the 2016 model year Evo redesign, the Black Inc use the same Hi-Mod frames as other Hi-Mod Evos as the weight saving wasn't worth the much higher production cost just to sell a few Black Inc bikes. I think they just wanted to see how low they could go and to have the title of 'lightest production bike' at the time.

I had a 2013 Black Inc with the Nano carbon. Stock without pedals, my 56 was 11.25lbs, pretty impressive for a stock bike built with no-nonsense normal components... but now I have a 2nd generation Evo Hi-Mod. New frames are heavier (than the old Black Inc but also a little bit more than the old Hi-Mods) but the new forks are lighter so overall the 2016/17/18 Hi-Mods are a tad lighter than the old Hi-Mods, I think a tad heavier overall than the old Nano carbon Black Inc... But more important than a few grams, the newer ones have a noticably stiffer BB area plus the old ones had just enough clearance for 25mm tires while the new ones can fit more modern wider rims with bigger tires. New ones are also supposedly more confortable with the skinnier seatposts, they are confortable but the older ones were also very confortable IMO.

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Dan Gerous


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

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> '13 Supersix Evo Red 5.98kg
> '17 CAAD12 Disc 8.16kg


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:01 pm 
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573 wrote:
Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

It should since they both use the same headset bearings...

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Dan Gerous


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:54 pm 
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And as far as I can tell the geometry of the fork has remained the same hasn't it?

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> '13 Supersix Evo Red 5.98kg
> '17 CAAD12 Disc 8.16kg


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:08 pm 
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I have a 16 fork on a 13 evo. Can't tell a diffetemce ride wise otherwise than slightly more compliance - maybe.

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Evo 5.02kg SL3 6.77 Slice RS 8.89 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Fork rake is the same (except on bikes size 44) but the fork height might have changed a little. Geometry has been adjusted for 700x25 tires, old ones were based on 23's. In theory that could mean a 1mm difference... but I have no clue if the different frame and fork designs have the lower bearing higher or lower... If it's not the same, it must be close.

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Dan Gerous


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:57 pm 
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573 wrote:
Assuming the new straight and lighter forks are compatible with the older frames?

Yes, it's compatible, mine is almost 60 grams lighter than original fork with some better compliance
Image

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My 5,17 kg Supersix Evo HM: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=15

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:02 pm 
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That looks great. 8)

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> '13 Supersix Evo Red 5.98kg
> '17 CAAD12 Disc 8.16kg


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Dan Gerous wrote:
Lelandjt is right. The first generation Evo Black Inc had lighter frames using Nano Carbon but since the 2016 model year Evo redesign, the Black Inc use the same Hi-Mod frames as other Hi-Mod Evos as the weight saving wasn't worth the much higher production cost just to sell a few Black Inc bikes. I think they just wanted to see how low they could go and to have the title of 'lightest production bike' at the time.


This is correct. I own a 2015 Nano Black Inc and they are lighter than the standard black inc ‘branded’ hi-mods since the 2016 S6 redesign. Actual weight for my Nano in size 56 is 707g frame and 288g fork so an astonishing 995g system weight. I picked up the frameset half price nearly two years ago but there are still a few of these knocking about on eBay every so often if you wanted to pick up lighter Nano frame.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Evo nano ad, lighter than an iPad
Image

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My 5,17 kg Supersix Evo HM: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=15

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Evo Nano? What the hell's one of those?

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> '13 Supersix Evo Red 5.98kg
> '17 CAAD12 Disc 8.16kg


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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:10 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:29 pm 
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573 wrote:
Evo Nano? What the hell's one of those?

The evo nano would be the black inc evo till 2015, the frame displayed is a normal evo hm

_________________
My 5,17 kg Supersix Evo HM: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137647&start=15

My 6,22 kg Cannondale R500 1996: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134364


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