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Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:48 pm
by TonyM
ergott wrote:CX-Sprint and DT Aero Comp are equivalent to Sapim Race and DT Competitions respectively. They should help. Honestly, a different hub would make a bigger difference. Nothing beats the Wheels Mfg hub for this. Better bracing angles and also better bearing placement so there's less unsupported axle. It's like going from a square taper crank/BB to outboard BB setup.


I am seeing on Enve website that they are using "DT Swiss Aerolite and Sapim CX Ray interchangeably".

From what I understand now the CX Ray are not strong enough but would the "DT Aerolite" be strong enough?
If not would the DT Aero speed spokes be adequate ? or the heavier DT Aero comp or even the DT new aero?

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:13 pm
by BdaGhisallo
From what I have gleaned over the years, both of those spokes are strong enough but they do not have as great a cross sectional area as thicker spokes do, and the thicker the spoke, the stiffer the wheel.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:13 pm
by Weenie

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:22 pm
by ergott
Interesting!

PolyLight Spokes are easier to build wheels with because the viscoelastic properties of the polymer build tension more slowly than stainless steel.


My concern here is if there's enough threading in a typical nipple and threaded end of spoke. Should be okay since when lacing your average wheel you end up turning the nipples 10-15 turns before they even start to have any tension. Tension would start sooner and I assume the stretch would be factored into spoke length.

I'd build with them to see how they are.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:26 pm
by ergott
TonyM wrote:I am seeing on Enve website that they are using "DT Swiss Aerolite and Sapim CX Ray interchangeably".


The cross sectional area of the two models is about the same (1.5mm circle forged into shape) so they build into similar performing wheels. As mentioned above, it's not strength that's the issue. The issue is lateral flex of the wheel. The greater the cross sectional area of the spoke (Aero Comps and CX-Sprint same cross sectional area as 1.8mm circle), the great the resistance to spoke stretch which leads to wheel flex. Imagine using a thicker cable to pull with a winch. Spokes pull the rim in place unless they go completely slack.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:28 pm
by TonyM
ergott wrote:
TonyM wrote:I am seeing on Enve website that they are using "DT Swiss Aerolite and Sapim CX Ray interchangeably".


The cross sectional area of the two models is about the same (1.5mm circle forged into shape) so they build into similar performing wheels. As mentioned above, it's not strength that's the issue. The issue is lateral flex of the wheel. The greater the cross sectional area of the spoke (Aero Comps and CX-Sprint same cross sectional area as 1.8mm circle), the great the resistance to spoke stretch which leads to wheel flex. Imagine using a thicker cable to pull with a winch. Spokes pull the rim in place unless they go completely slack.


Thanks for the clarification ! :thumbup:

Which DT aero spokes would be adequate ?

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:43 pm
by ergott
DT Aero Comp. They are thicker than Aerolite and hard to tell apart unless you measure them.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/spo ... aero-comp/

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:52 am
by zappafile123
kavitator wrote:http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunking_Wheel_Stiffness_3449.html


great article, thanks for sharing

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:47 am
by BugsBunny7788
I have the new Enve 3.4 tubeless wheels - with the Enve hubs.

Initially, put them on and got brake rub. But I had some super lightweight titanium skewers on. Then I put the original Enve skewers on (which are more solid) and brake rub also completely disappeared. I can still feel just a tinge of wheel flex but this is when I'm putting out max power - which is only a few seconds (around 1000w). I weigh 63kg and use a lot of upper body to "twist" the bike when sprinting so this might be a cause for you if you frame is flexy too.

So - try some more solid/clamping skewers to begin with.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:00 am
by ryanw
I've been up to 100kg on my 4.5 NBTs w/CK45 hubs.

I have rubbing from new, so took the wheels to a local wheel builder and he was shocked how badly the wheels had been built.

Adjusted / replaced all the spokes (same were way too short and barely in the nipple), wheels are now perfect.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:47 am
by StradaJon
We always make sure a rider swaps to a heavier gauge QR on the rear at least as a process of elimination on wheel flex issues.

Re: ENVE SES 4.5 with ENVE hub => brake rub

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:50 pm
by jj911c2
I was having the same problem on a set of SES 3.4 (2017 model) with the Enve carbon hubs. I called Enve and they sent me a heavier QR which did not help. I took them to my local shop and the tension of the spokes was too low - they adjusted and now I am not getting any brake rub.