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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:46 am 
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fromtrektocolnago wrote:
i place more stock in what experienced ex-pros chose when they are no longer beholden to a team or a manufacturer. when they are making personal decisions based on their own years of experience using their own funds its a bit more honest.


That's a good indicator but only to a point. How many ex-pros take riding all that seriously once they retire? I wouldn't imagine that number is very high. Some will care, no doubt, like Erik Zabel for instance. But others may ride equipment different to what they competed on as a pro simply because someone may have given it to them, or their local bike shop may carry a specific brand and they ride that to make life simple.

Unless you hear an ex-pro actually detail their reasons for riding what they do, and if they have any technical reason for doing so, I wouldn't put much stock in what you see them cruising around on.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:50 am 
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BdaGhisallo wrote:
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
i place more stock in what experienced ex-pros chose when they are no longer beholden to a team or a manufacturer. when they are making personal decisions based on their own years of experience using their own funds its a bit more honest.


That's a good indicator but only to a point. How many ex-pros take riding all that seriously once they retire? I wouldn't imagine that number is very high. Some will care, no doubt, like Erik Zabel for instance. But others may ride equipment different to what they competed on as a pro simply because someone may have given it to them, or their local bike shop may carry a specific brand and they ride that to make life simple.

Unless you hear an ex-pro actually detail their reasons for riding what they do, and if they have any technical reason for doing so, I wouldn't put much stock in what you see them cruising around on.


well i did say purchased, and not donated by a friend or a local bike shop. but your point of hearing their logic would be valid. i do yearly training in girona with a former pro and even if he's not on a top line bike he understands what makes a good bike and he's not riding a bad bike by any stretch

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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:50 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 pm 
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fromtrektocolnago wrote:

well i did say purchased, and not donated by a friend or a local bike shop. but your point of hearing their logic would be valid. i do yearly training in girona with a former pro and even if he's not on a top line bike he understands what makes a good bike and he's not riding a bad bike by any stretch


..."or their local bike shop may carry a specific brand and they ride that to make life simple."

This was meant to imply that they purchased their bike from their lbs.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:16 pm 
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These arguments go nowhere.... Pros ride very, very good bikes. This is a fact. Could they ride better bikes? It depends. What does better mean? Lighter? Even more aero? Clavicula cranks, THM brakes, and LW wheels?

Certainly pros know that being obsessive with components has not much to do with racing at a top professional level. 'Perfect' equipment is among the things that matter but definitely it is not the number one. Riders change teams and bikes all the time. A top rider is a top rider.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:04 pm 
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kgt wrote:
Certainly pros know that being obsessive with components has not much to do with racing at a top professional level.

Have you ever heard of a pro cyclist named Eddy Merckx? He was more than a little obsessed with components. He wasn't such a terrible rider, either.
http://www.eddymerckx.com/magazine/2017 ... ge0016.pdf

Merckx was obscure, yes, but in 1972 he rode his bike pretty fast for a whole hour. Here's a picture of his drilled bars and titanium stem:

Image

Was Merckx at the top level of bicycle racing? Was he obsessed? It's hard to say...

And what about that Greg LeMond fellow? He beat a helmetless, ponytailed Laurent Fignon in some French bike race in large part because LeMond selected his equipment with more care than Fignon did.
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... ing-181429

But those guys raced 30-45 years ago. It was a different time, and maybe the sport is so advanced now that there's not much benefit to obsessively pursuing marginal gains. Oh, wait:
http://road.cc/content/feature/187025-1 ... inal-gains

I'm not saying Merckx, LeMond and Froome/Brailsford won races exclusively because they were obsessed with equipment. But at the top levels of the sport, small advances--the kind that require obsession--make enough difference that they're worth pursuing. When you say these things don't have much to do with racing at the highest levels, I can't help but wonder why you think so.


Edit: fixed typos


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:25 pm 
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KGT is still correct.

Current pros are using Good equipment - as they thread states. Could some use better equipment? Perhaps. But again, it depends on how better is defined.

Lemond beat Fignon by a miniscule margin because of the equipment he chose. That is certainly one example of where equipment played a role.

Schleck lost to Contador because he dropped a chain. Was that a Sram issue or a user error? That's been debated.

Regardless, the simple fact is that the stuff the pros use is very good. It may not be the "best," but again, I'm not sure we can objectively define what is the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:52 am 
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@youngs_modulus
You will never agree to anything I write even if what I say is pretty obvious. Is it a condition or something? You have to look after it... BTW didn't the moderators tell you not to reply to my posts aready?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:57 am 
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Another point of view : Have you noticed that the current bike a pro rides, is always "the best bike I've ever ridden!".?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm 
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youngs_modulus wrote:
kgt wrote:
Certainly pros know that being obsessive with components has not much to do with racing at a top professional level.

Have you ever heard of a pro cyclist named Eddy Merckx? He was more than a little obsessed with components. He wasn't such a terrible rider, either.
http://www.eddymerckx.com/magazine/2017 ... ge0016.pdf

Merckx was obscure, yes, but in 1972 he rode his bike pretty fast for a whole hour. Here's a picture of his drilled bars and titanium stem:

Image

Was Merckx at the top level of bicycle racing? Was he obsessed? It's hard to say...

And what about that Greg LeMond fellow? He beat a helmetless, ponytailed Laurent Fignon in some French bike race in large part because LeMond selected his equipment with more care than Fignon did.
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... ing-181429

But those guys raced 30-45 years ago. It was a different time, and maybe the sport is so advanced now that there's not much benefit to obsessively pursuing marginal gains. Oh, wait:
http://road.cc/content/feature/187025-1 ... inal-gains

I'm not saying Merckx, LeMond and Froome/Brailsford won races exclusively because they were obsessed with equipment. But at the top levels of the sport, small advances--the kind that require obsession--make enough difference that they're worth pursuing. When you say these things don't have much to do with racing at the highest levels, I can't help but wonder why you think so.


Edit: fixed typos


you are talking about a time where the sport and technology was in its infancy


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:14 pm 
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That would be 1890, not 1970...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:15 pm 
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topflightpro wrote:
Schleck lost to Contador because he dropped a chain. Was that a Sram issue or a user error? That's been debated


I always find this idea strange when the guy that beat Schleck, Contador, was also using Sram. Maybe Contador won because he was using Sram - an equally silly idea.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:25 am 
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kgt wrote:
@youngs_modulus
You will never agree to anything I write even if what I say is pretty obvious. Is it a condition or something? You have to look after it... BTW didn't the moderators tell you not to reply to my posts aready?


KGT, Although it is great that you think for us, we rather do it ourselves. You have received a warning, please change your behaviour so it better accomodates the general vibe of the forum or you will be banned for at least two weeks.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:50 pm 
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I am glad I do not follow "the general vibe of the forum", it would be too predictable and boring...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Location: Southern California
Actually pros ride what we pay for in sales dollars/euros, etc...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:18 pm 
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I noted Juan Antonio Flecha rode a Passoni bike.
It would be kind of interesting to know they get discounts on some components/ bikes etc, even after they've quit riding as professionals.

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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:18 pm 


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