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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Southern California
Hey guys,

I currently ride a 2017 Giant TCR SL with Dura Ace 9150, Campy Bora Ultra 50 clinchers and a 2016 a Specialized Allez DSW Sprint, also with Dura Ace 9150, and Zipp 404 NSW's. Both bikes are brilliant though the TCR is my favorite of the two, bar non. I'm looking to adding an additional bike frame where I can have it built by Christmas. This is not a need, just a want.
So I was thinking building either a Colango C60 with Campy Super Record and Bora Ultra 50 tubs, or Bianchi Oltre XR4 with Dura Ace 9150 and 454/404 NSW's. BTW, anyone install the Trek Madone integrated aero bar on non Madone bikes? Does it lose its aero characteristics on a different bike? I weight 160 LBS and average around 5000 miles per year with a lot of climbing and rolling hills here in Southern California.
Thanks!

_________________
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Red)
2016 Specialized Allez DSW Sprint (Gold)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 am 
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Location: Atlanta, GA, US
Assuming they both fit, I would do the Bianchi Oltre with Campy Super Record / Bora Ultra. My preference for the Bianchi over the Colnago is based purely on looks (though I wasn't super impressed with the C60 I rented for a day).

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Last edited by fa63 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 309
Both are really lovely framesets, but they are for riders with different needs IMO.

I have only spent a very short amount of time on a C60 so my comments are propped up from talking to owners to some degree. To me the C60 is more of a stop and smell the roses kind of ride. It has that distinct carbon lugged ride quality where bumps give off a carbon 'tunk' sensation. It has a much more springy ride feel and whilst its plenty stiff, it doesnt have the sharp responsive edge to hard inputs you get from something like the XR4. A few owners have commented to me that they dont think it's a 'racing' bike, rather its just something to enjoy the pleasure of riding on. So if you want a trophy ride to chill on, the C60 is your go to. That is not the same thing as saying its not a capable racing steed, of course it is, its just you may appreciate the XR4 more is a racy feel is more important to you.

In contrast the XR4 feels very solid underfoot. It rides like a cloud over the road - ultra smooth and a little muted, but super agile and stiff. The frame takes a fair amount of the sharpness out of hard hits and high frequency vibration, so you can happily ride it all day. The pedalling platform provides that awesome sensation of being filled with energy, propelling you forward with each pedal stroke rather than sucking up some of your energy (which the Colnago does). It just feels fast. I guess a trade-off to its ride quality is it doesn't have that raw road feel you get from more paired back racing framesets like an Izalco Max or a TCR SL. In a nutshell, this one is for people who want a comfy no compromise speed machine. Another trade-off is that its heavy! My 53cm is 7.5kg with Reynolds Aero 58s, Campy SR/Chorus mix, FSA K-force cockpit and a Campy power2max.

One other thing that I think is quite subjective and largely contingent upon fit, the C60 handles much more 'intuitively' than the XR4. Cant quite figure out why, but I just don't like how Bianchi's handle - I feel a little perched up on it. Having said that I am the first to admit I have no idea how to handle a bike, but some frames seem to make it easier to go down hill than others (e.g. the Diamante is *f##k* amazing downhill).

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm
Posts: 253
I think the above recommendation is thoughtful and accurate. There is very little i could add that zappa has not covered.

Both are great frames with different approaches to a top of the line racing bike. I would recommend the XR4 if you can fit and enjoy a low and long geometry. You cant go wrong with either. While i wish my XR4 was lighter, the countervail technology makes up for the weight.

I recommend you do either frame with campagnolo and boras. Bianchi and C60s just look great with a full campy groupset. Great choice to have and please let us know what you ultimately select

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Southern California
Wow, some really good info here. Thanks!

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2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Red)
2016 Specialized Allez DSW Sprint (Gold)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:50 am 
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Besides from the look, the C60 is more like a regular very good race bike as the XR4 will give you more confort (countervail fibres) and of course less responsiveness than the C60 gives but only if you have the power/ watts.
So again - besides the look (they both look great!) if you have the FTP/ power/ Watts go for the C60; otherwise go for the XR4. And if you usually have long rides, then it depends on your fitness if you afford to ride the C60 for so many hours; if not go for the very nice XR4.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am
Posts: 143
TonyM wrote:
Besides from the look, the C60 is more like a regular very good race bike as the XR4 will give you more confort (countervail fibres) and of course less responsiveness than the C60 gives but only if you have the power/ watts.
So again - besides the look (they both look great!) if you have the FTP/ power/ Watts go for the C60; otherwise go for the XR4. And if you usually have long rides, then it depends on your fitness if you afford to ride the C60 for so many hours; if not go for the very nice XR4.


Never knew that....
Always thought the C60 was more of the 'comfortable' race bike for all day riding, good for someone new who is moving into race bike geometry.
I would have thought the XR4 or any of the Oltre or even Pin F8/F10 and Cipollini Bond to be....."buy this if u have high power ftp"

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Oltre XR3, Diverge DSW


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 309
Boshk wrote:
TonyM wrote:

Never knew that....
Always thought the C60 was more of the 'comfortable' race bike for all day riding, good for someone new who is moving into race bike geometry.
I would have thought the XR4 or any of the Oltre or even Pin F8/F10 and Cipollini Bond to be....."buy this if u have high power ftp"


The C60 is reasonably comfortable. It has a race geometry. The comments about FTP are kinda irrelevant, so long as you can ride at 30km/h on your own on the flat you'll notice a difference in what these frames have to offer.

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm
Posts: 794
Here a lot of the guys ride Bianchi's, and im friend with LBS who import them, so having a chance to compare some of them since i ride C60 my self.

C60 is far from sucking ur energy and beeing not stiff enough. It very stiff where it needed, but in same time very comfortable, so u have a feeling that is not stiff enough (since dont beat u on the way).

Sometimes stifness feeling is how u feel the road. if u feel every bump, every road buzz u got idea that is stiff. But feeling that not mean that u are actually faster.

Actually that is one of the best sides of C60. Beeing stiff and take all watts u can put, but comfy in same time. And when u compare ur effort later (same effort, same ride on different bikes), u realize that u are actually faster on C60 (i had that kind of comparation for example with Pinarello Dogma F8, and Pinarello Dogma 60.1 and Oltre XR2 (I had XR2 on test ride then for 10 days, and rode 500 km on that bike). Same wheels and tires on all of them.

I guess similar will be with XR4. Just feeling stiffer, but not beeing faster in reality.But this is assumption, which i can test ride for u if u want, since few riding friends have XR4, and can compare with my C60.



Ok, this is One part of the story :)

The other things u should consider:

C60 and XR4 are exactly the same weight (i have pictures of 50S C60 and Oltre XR4 55 frames. If u are interested i can post them, since i measure them before installation). So no weight advantage here

C60 is much higher quality then Oltre XR4 (and same weight). - For example on XR4 u press bearings directly to carbon, on C60 there is alloy threaded inserts and for me is best PF implemenation ever. Same story in headset part. C60 have alloy inserts, on XR4 u press bearings directly in carbon.

Reliability - Dont know how it is with XR4, but there was a lot of Warranty claims for XR2 and some other Bianchi's. I know 5 guys im riding with them, who had warranty issue on XR2. For XR4 still early, but seem like much better quality then XR2. C60 in this part will be much better bike.

Dont know in u'r part of the world, but here Bianchi have very good warranty.

Few friends who had crack in the frame, got new frame as replacement without any problems. The only problem was that one of them had to wait 3 months until he got his new frame (in his case he got cracked XR2, Bianchi did not have on stock anymore, so they offer him XR4 as replacament. More then fair enough :) ).

Size Choice - One of the reason i did not bought Bianchi (i wanted to buy Speciallisima in the time i was buying), and for me it's much better bike then Oltre (because at least is light, and i prefer the look of it) is the size choice which is very limited. In my case 53 cm was too small, 55 too big. Nothing in between. For C60 u can buy ur ideal size, which will lead to ur comfort and handling much better then some marketing hype about special material.

Oltre XR4 look on first sight very nice.. Very sleek. And maybe best looking aero bike in this moment. But since every bike look similar it's not distinctive. Also it's kind of design which look very nice now, but probably in year or two u'll be bored of it. C60 will look still nice in 10 years from now.

At the end.. If u still decide to go for Oltre XR4 (and check Specialissima just in case..Still thinking is better bike), go for Celeste Gloss. Much better looking then Mate (one friend have Matte colour, the other one Gloss)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:42 am 
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Location: Expat in Washington DC
I think someone needs to tell the Emirates team that they're not riding real race bikes in the tours......maybe they were smelling too many flowers........


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 309
Reading comprehension seems to be wanting on this forum ;)

Relevant quotes about the C60 from my post above:

"whilst its plenty stiff..."

"That is not the same thing as saying its not a capable racing steed, of course it is..."

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Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece
corky wrote:
I think someone needs to tell the Emirates team that they're not riding real race bikes in the tours......maybe they were smelling too many flowers........

:lol:
Things are simple. Both C60 and XR4 are top racing frames in terms of performance but the C60 is a higher quality frame.
Bianchi is made in China, C60 is made in Italy. After 2 seasons an XR5 will come up which will be ligher, stiffer, more aero and look better. C60 is a frame you can ride, race and enjoy for many, many years. Every Colnago in the C series is a classic.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:03 am
Posts: 204
Location: Queensland Australia
+1^
I have a Giant TCR SL0 with DI2.
And a C59 Team Edition, with SR EPS.
And whilst I love both bikes dearly, it is the C59 I may never get rid of. Feels more comfortable, but I'm never fooled by its Race Pedigree. It definitely ain't no smells the roses type of bike. While it can be ridden comfortably for long periods of time. It is a pure race bike.
The Giant feels a little more aggressive to me, but I doubt it is faster. Having grown up with Shimano, it also just feels a little more naturally to me.
The C59 is all class, and always turns plenty of heads.
I know it's not really a comparison between the C60 and the XR4.
But I hope it helps in comparing the Giant you have now, to a Colnago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
2013 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0, 6.92kg
2013 Giant Defy Composite 2 M, 8.5kg - Wife's
Azzurro Torino 8.55g
Fuji 650 10.8kg
Miele Lupa Triple Tandem 38,89kg


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 309
Ok, maybe the smell the roses analogy was too strong/misinterpreted lol. Its wasn't criticism saying 'this is an old mans bike for soft folk who love their noodles'. The analogy was meant to be 'this is a bike to enjoy the pure sensation of riding rather than a bike thats balls to the wall, all about function, not form, rides like a block of wood to be a race machine. Its a connoisseurs bike with racing heritage that uses old-school tech with a contemporary twist. It doesnt ride like a contemporary racing monocoque thoroughbred. People get so defensive about their Colnagos

Matt Wikstrom is an excellent reviewer and he backs my comments up to a degree:

https://cyclingtips.com/2014/08/colnago-c60-review/

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


Last edited by zappafile123 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:22 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm
Posts: 149
Noctiluxx wrote:
Hey guys,

I currently ride a 2017 Giant TCR SL with Dura Ace 9150, Campy Bora Ultra 50 clinchers and a 2016 a Specialized Allez DSW Sprint, also with Dura Ace 9150, and Zipp 404 NSW's. Both bikes are brilliant though the TCR is my favorite of the two, bar non. I'm looking to adding an additional bike frame where I can have it built by Christmas. This is not a need, just a want.
So I was thinking building either a Colango C60 with Campy Super Record and Bora Ultra 50 tubs, or Bianchi Oltre XR4 with Dura Ace 9150 and 454/404 NSW's. BTW, anyone install the Trek Madone integrated aero bar on non Madone bikes? Does it lose its aero characteristics on a different bike? I weight 160 LBS and average around 5000 miles per year with a lot of climbing and rolling hills here in Southern California.
Thanks!

I somehow get the impression that money is not an issue here and you will end up with more bikes than are needed for your mileage anyway. So if your significant other is ok with that, just get both :wink:


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