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 Post subject: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 91
Hi all,

I would like to upgrade my endurance bike, which is great, to be honest, but when I tried Scott Foil, I immediately felt that it has a better acceleration, it somehow rewards any increase in my effort even when tired while my endurance bike is slightly delayed with reactions rewarding high cadence...at least these were my feelings when switching the bikes same day. (endurance bike is more comfortable but that´s not top priority, Scott is fine with ok roads)

Since that day I was thinking about the Foil, I should have never tried that bike:) Now there is a disc brake version available (which I need as I am upgrading only frameset) so it is time for decision. The price for the frameset is just bit too high...(4400 euros with integrated handlebars)...for this amount of money one can buy Bianchi Oltre XR4 frame, which is my dream bike (I don´t think it is better than Scott, just the same, but Bianchis were my dream bikes when I was a kid)... but there is no sign of the Oltre XR4 Disc brake version coming soon...

Have any of you heard anything about Bianchis disc brake updates? (I know there is Aria, but my heart doesn´t beat stronger seeing that)
Would you wait or buy what is functionally perfect choice for me?

Thanks, I need to make a decision during the weekend:)


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 Post subject: Foil Disc vs Oltre
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:14 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Southern California
According to this shop in Australia, the 2018 Oltre XR4 is still rim brake. Now who knows if they add a disk version in the next few months. Personally I fond the Oltre XR4 in Celeste one of the most beautiful bikes on the market.

https://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road- ... /102902086

_________________
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Red)
2016 Specialized Allez DSW Sprint (Gold)


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
Posts: 445
I'd choose the Foil Disc since I'm a big disc proponent and don't have a particular affinity to Bianchi. If you love Bianchis and are okay with rim brakes, then choose whichever you feel fits better, rides better, looks better.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm
Posts: 238
XR4 will have a disc version coming, but your guess is as good as mine as to when it will launch. Apparently, the team was waiting for disc specific groupset to be available and standardized according to Angelo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPv9lDv9ug&t=81s

I just assembled my rim version XR4 and i absolutely love it thus far. Will see after the honeymoon period wears off, but the countervail is noticeable.

_________________
My Protos
My XR4


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 806
The Foil is not a bike I am very emotional about but I would love to buy a XR4 with discs (my LBS says he heard that Bianchi will make an announcement in the coming months (maybe of a XR4 with disc) but who knows!). Considering the pricing for a XR4 I will only buy it when it has disc.

BTW, Specialized should also be announcing their New Tarmac disc soon I think...It may be an option for you if you like the Tarmac.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 91
thanks all, nice youtube video.. at least they are not against disc brakes and they were working on a disc brake project a year ago (but obviously it was in early period as they had no results from testing it). i was hoping for eurobike announcement, but Bianchi is silent:) apparently there is no demand from pro riders and Bianchi is not pushing it so you won't have leak photos from the races before announcement..
i just don't want to wait another year and with Scott frameset here, you have to be pretty quick as they are sold out within weaks and you can't get them later..
I am sure Scott is a perfect frame, for me it is the same category as Trek, Specialized... Bianchi is more special in terms of emotions:) hard to decide, who knows when they release it and if they keep the same price as the non disc brake frameset..


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 91
I looked at the prices briefly and with Scott, the disc brakes frameset is about 400 euros higher...also Bianchi offers Aria with disc brakes and normal brakes. I can see that the disc brake ultegra version is 700 euros more expensive than its rim brake version. Groupset is about 100 euros difference and maybe wheels are more expensive but I guess I can expect about 500 euros difference for the frameset...


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 806
The Aria Disc could indeed be an option...not as good as the XR4 but much raisonnable in terms of $$


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 91
yeah, but Aria is not as nice as Oltre, no countervail, heavier..geometry the same..
Scott HMX frameset is about 970+335g = 1305g claimed, Aria would be around 1550g (frame is 1150+fork)


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:28 am 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:35 am
Posts: 62
Your passion is for the Bianchi. What is more important- the disk brake or the bike you have lusted after since childhood? It is often said that the best bike for anyone is the one that they want to ride. It sounds like you will always want to ride the Bianchi.

FWIW I have ridden carbon wheels with rim brakes exclusively, in all weathers, for 6 years and never failed to stop, and as much as performance may be a bit better with disks, I would not let it be the reason to pass up the option of my dream bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
Posts: 445
When it came time for me to choose between the new BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc and Emonda SLR Disc, my mind changed very quickly. The Emonda was cheaper, lighter and immediately available. I prefer the look of the BMC and there's nothing particularly exciting about owning a Trek, but in the end I chose the Emonda without hesitation. It was simply the better bike for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
Posts: 305
I agree with Stax, the most important thing is satisfying the deepest lust. What are you going to look at over in the corner and think to yourself 'damn... that is a fine thing, I love it.. its mine".

Obviously I'm biased here, but there's no question that the XR4 is the better choice. Here are the reasons why:

1. Street cred. XR4's are more than just equipment, they are part of a cultural icon. There's a romance/prestige to them (which of course not everyone takes part in) that the Scott just doesnt have. People will give you complements and envy you. Its a bike to keep, not to consume and throw away.
2. Disc brakes aren't good enough yet. This is more controversial, but here are the reasons not to get a bike with disc's. Serviceability - you might not think about it when you buy a bike, but servicing discs is a pain; they are more complicated and more can and does go wrong than with ye old caliper. Most importantly however, disc's negatively affect a frames ride characteristics. Riding disc vs. non-disc versions of a frame back to back, you realise they arent as snappy, they're more sluggish and feel comparatively dead. Whatever they have to do to reinforce the frame detracts from the ride quality. That and they're just heavy. The only benefit to discs is the braking is better... but at the cost of ride quality, serviceability and ultimately money. its a no-brainer to avoid discs IMO.
3. The XR4 is amazing. Hands down this is one of the best frames I've ridden/owned. The countervail works, it noticeably smooths the ride out, but the bike remains super-stiff /responsive. It has the highest levels of concurrent stiffness and comfort in a frame I've experienced. It feels fast and it has an interesting ride quality. Another way of putting it is I havent ridden anything better.
4. Custom colours - pay and extra $200 (or whatever it is) and make the XR4 uniquely yours. (It actually looks amazing in Pink).

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR4 |BMC SLR01 16' |Cannondale SS Evo HM 12'| Focus Izalco Max | Ridley Helium SL 15' | Basso Diamante 15' | Bianchi Oltre XR2 | Scapin Dyseys S8 | Time ZXRS | Giant TCR SL 12' | Ridley Noah 08' | Look 585 | Cervelo Soloist SLC


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 91
I tend to wait for disc oltre..but it may be a long wait:( On a video posted by Seedster their product manager says, they are working on it. The video is one year old...obviously they were in early stage that time as he said they had no result from wind tunnel yet..I don´t know how long it can take...I hope not another year, but it seems so:(


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 806
I also have the feeling that the XR4 disc will be announced only mid next year. Bianchi is usually taking time with new "things"


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:36 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Foil Disc vs Oltre
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
Posts: 445
zappafile123 wrote:

2. Disc brakes aren't good enough yet. This is more controversial, but here are the reasons not to get a bike with disc's. Serviceability - you might not think about it when you buy a bike, but servicing discs is a pain; they are more complicated and more can and does go wrong than with ye old caliper. Most importantly however, disc's negatively affect a frames ride characteristics. Riding disc vs. non-disc versions of a frame back to back, you realise they arent as snappy, they're more sluggish and feel comparatively dead. Whatever they have to do to reinforce the frame detracts from the ride quality. That and they're just heavy. The only benefit to discs is the braking is better... but at the cost of ride quality, serviceability and ultimately money. its a no-brainer to avoid discs IMO.


1) Tell me, what more goes wrong with the caliper? I've never had caliper issues.
2) How do you quantify snappiness? Does it come from a stiffer frame or a flexier frame?
3) You know what detracts from my ride quality? Repeated braking from 45-50mph to 20mph on steep descents with hairpins and carbon braketracks having poor thermal conductivity. The lack of initial bite on even the best textured carbon rim braketracks from ENVE, Mavic, Zipp, Campagnolo. The braketrack wear after 3-4 years and a couple million feet climbed/descended. My brands new Campy H11 rotors have brown discoloration on the tynes from heat. You're putting the same energy into a rim brake system, and if your using CFRP rims, you're relying on that heat not melting/delaminating the composite.

It's a no-brainer to avoid rim brakes imo.


Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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