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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 390
Hi WWs.

I was looking for a lightish disc brake aero bike for a long time that I later could put a base bar on.

It then struck me looking at this new cannondale tt frame that it's quite light and aero and disc brake. It's already got a base bar on. It should be quite good at climbing, outperform the aero frames and descend properly with disc brakes.

What do you think? Put etap on it and use it as an allrounder. Mount tt-bars when doing mostly flats. Bottom bracket standard is a light BB30A. Switch wheels depending on route. Shallow/medium/deep rims. 2 or 3 sets.

If it could be built to 7kg without clip-on's but with 58mm rims it's a good start. Lose the paint and so on.

So what are your thoughts and do you think it will even reach retail stores? Got any info on it? I saw the old slice in hi-mod came in at 1000gr for the frame and 390gr for the fork. (Cannondale probably BS numbers but even if they are off by 10% it's still a very light tt frame.)

/a

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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:38 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:54 am 
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TT frames will generally handle like a pig when set up as a road bike.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
Posts: 450
Nefarious86 wrote:
TT frames will generally handle like a pig when set up as a road bike.


For a 54cm

- 71.5deg head angle vs 73deg typical
- 1000mm wheelbase vs 975-985mm typical
- 79deg seattube vs 73.5deg typical
- 66mm trail vs 58mm typical

Pig may be too nice...barge seems more apt.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Posts: 390
You say pig but quite stable on the road at higher speed isn't it?

I'm not a racer or sprinter with sudden attacks. I'm just doing some group and solo rides. Sometimes climbing, sometimes flats.

I used to ride heavy motorcycles. I think I can handle a big. Maybe a pig can even take a deeper front wheel compared to a road bike. Since it's head tube angle isn't as extreme.

/a


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am
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Location: Pack filler
Climbing? nah
comfort? nah
descending? nah
handling? nah

They're designed to go fast in a straight flattish line. Anything else is all relative. My slice hi-mod (mk1) is more comfortable than my Exocet 2, but it's not saying much!

Besides the majority of group rides frown upon tt bikes turning up, as manoeuverability and stopping ability are greatly reduced as the levers are farther away.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:23 pm 
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I'm never in the drops. Was thinking of not using the tt bars and just make sure the base bar is at a similar height as my current bars.

If the frame size is chosen to mimick a normal bike's fit, I wonder if staying on the base bar would really be much different for me if I almost never use the drops anyway.

Thank you all for your answers though. I really appreciate it. Didn't know TT bikes were so horrible. Arent aero bikes somewhere inbetween traditional bikes and tt bikes in terms of fit and comfort?

I thought TT were aero bikes with more efficient tube profiles since the rules don't apply the same to TT bikes.

/a


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
TT bikes handle fine and I'm speaking as one who rides a TT bike every week. If they're not comfortable for general riding it's because the handlebar setup is intended to provide a low and aero position.

if you want to make a TT bike usable for general riding around, the handlebar setup is going to be key. Over to you...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:07 am 
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Posts: 390
Thank you Miller.

Does anyone have any info on this bike as in will it be offered to the public? Is it the official tt bike of 2018?

/a


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm
Posts: 148
Haven't looked at the frame weight but the bikes that were at the tour were weighing in at 9kg according to Bikeradar.

In terms of aerobikes being in between road bikes and TT bikes: that is not true. Aerobikes have very similar, often even the exact same geometry than "normal" roadbikes of the same manufacturer. If you want to mimic roadbike geometry, you'd need to push the saddle farther back than technically possible, mount the base bar very high and would still end up with the unusual head angle.

Most group rides that I know will not accept a TT bike in any way and that doesn't change if the rider promises to never use the TT bar.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:04 pm 
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I don't even have them mounted on. Just base bar.

Also this is China I'm living in. There are no such rules here. My decision to leave them off is for weight and some safety. But if the group had a ride with mostly flats then I can put them on. Someone might warn me about it but not prohibit me. We are friends.

/a


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:55 pm 
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alcatraz wrote:
I don't even have them mounted on. Just base bar.

Also this is China I'm living in. There are no such rules here. My decision to leave them off is for weight and some safety. But if the group had a ride with mostly flats then I can put them on. Someone might warn me about it but not prohibit me. We are friends.

/a

It's not a question whether you are riding with friends (most of my group rides are with friends as well) but whether they think that your bike is a safety hazard for the group.

My take on the subject is that when you want to have a TT setup and want to do group rides as well, you either buy a TT bike and a road bike or, if you want to have just one bike for everything, you buy a(n aero) road bike that you can convert with clip on bars and by flipping the seat post.

Anyway, it seems that you made up your mind already (maybe even before starting this thread), so I wish you happy building, post some pictures afterwards and have fun with your ride.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I don't get it. You want to buy what may well be the pro peloton's ugliest TT bike in order to turn it into a poorly fitting, badly handling, not particularly lightweight road bike? Well I suppose it is your money down the drain after all…


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:39 am 
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Posts: 390
I'm just playing with the idea. I can't afford a new bike for another year at least.

It was never my intention to annoy anyone. I understand that people who do race have to abide by the rules and don't really think out of the box.

You say poorly fitting and poorly handling. The fit can be helped by choosing a suitable size (most importantly to get the stack/head tube right). If the size is big enough to bring the base bar (still streamlined) in the right height I'll be doing ok, don't you think?

The idea that I love is that a TT bike can be made fairly light and is not restricted in it's tube profiles like all the aero bikes. The place on road and aero bikes that is still quite underdeveloped is the cockpit area. My effort is to bring aero efficiency to this area without degrading the fit too much.

My current bike has a quite extreme position already. My drops are quite close to my front wheel. I've ridden thousands of km like this and start to feel very good. My issues are with being aero and braking downhill. I'd like my next bike to improve in those areas.

I'm not racing. I'm an amateur mechanic that likes to try out some ideas and I don't like being restrained to these three categories climb/aero/tt or the UCI. I'm always riding a lot of everything on my routes so even if I did have three bikes I wouldn't have the one I needed for that particular moment. (climb/flat/descent)

I'm attempting to come closer to an efficient do-it-all bike.

/a

Edit: This idea was inspired by the build done by tririg: Liberty bike.
Image
Image

Bike would look somewhat like this 2/3 of the time.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:23 am 
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alcatraz wrote:
It was never my intention to annoy anyone. I understand that people who do race have to abide by the rules and don't really think out of the box.

You say poorly fitting and poorly handling. The fit can be helped by choosing a suitable size (most importantly to get the stack/head tube right). If the size is big enough to bring the base bar (still streamlined) in the right height I'll be doing ok, don't you think?

It's not about rules and no, you won't be able to help the fit. Seat and head angle are all wrong for a fit similar to a road bike.

alcatraz wrote:
The idea that I love is that a TT bike can be made fairly light and is not restricted in it's tube profiles like all the aero bikes. The place on road and aero bikes that is still quite underdeveloped is the cockpit area. My effort is to bring aero efficiency to this area without degrading the fit too much.

My current bike has a quite extreme position already. My drops are quite close to my front wheel. I've ridden thousands of km like this and start to feel very good. My issues are with being aero and braking downhill. I'd like my next bike to improve in those areas.

TT bike tube profiles are restricted by the same rules as aero bikes. If you want to forego that you need a thriatlon bike.

The fit on your road bike being extreme isn't the same as the fit on the TT bike because, again, the angles aren't set up to be used with a TT bar setup and to be fast in a straight line first and foremost.


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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:23 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
In addition to the excellent points raised by Lieblingsleguan above, I'd also like to add that time trial bikes are above all designed to be as fast and (relatively) comfortable as possible with the rider down in the aerobars. The basebar is merely a bailout for when you need to get out of the saddle or navigate tricky corners.

A time trial bike ridden exclusively form the basebar is not going to be any faster than even a standard road bike, let alone more recent aero road bikes. Then you talk about climbing and descending, which would be an even worse use case for the time trial bike. Why do you think professional riders tend to pick standard road bikes (with clip-ons) for mountain time trials? They sure ain't looking to keep their speed down!


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