Cannondale Super Slice Disc brake version

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
alcatraz
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Let me ask all of you. In the hypothetical case you had to buy a TT/triathlon bike to use for all your rides, which one would it be and why?

Has anyone decided between getting an aero vs tt/triathlon bike? Did you try both before deciding and which one did you choose?

Thank you for sharing your story.
/a

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

So if I had to get a bike entirely not suited to my style of riding (climbing/descending,) which would it be? I cannot answer that question to your satisfaction.

alcatraz
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

TobinHatesYou wrote:So if I had to get a bike entirely not suited to my style of riding (climbing/descending,) which would it be? I cannot answer that question to your satisfaction.


I don't think you belong to this thread's target demographic. It's for people who can ride a TT/triathlon bike or at least consider to do so. Also not just on 0% grades for 20 minutes at the most.

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear by now. I do tend to ramble... :D

/a

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I think an aero bike with clip-ons when needed is a far better compromise for an enthusiast. I see "triathletes" riding their bikes up Mt. Hamilton with times like 2:50 and it makes my eyes roll out of their sockets.

Basically if you're at the point where a TT bike matters, you should be able to justify two bikes.

Peterjah
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:37 am

by Peterjah

When I get to the site, I click something showing ? number of new posts & it pulls up a page showing all the threads with new posts. When I go into each thread, I have to scroll through posts I have already read to get to the unread stuff. There should be a way to go straight to the first unread post but I am not seeing a way to do this...can someone help?

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1331
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Currently I have an aero bike, a Fuji Transonic. I have no issues with braking even on extremely steep and harrowing descents. Direct mount Dura Ace brakes, Campy Bora wheels, Campy red brake pads....I can't imagine needing disk brakes at the moment. I love my bike however it's very harsh and soulless to ride. I can't imagine riding a TT bike everyday. The ride quality would be even worse than an aero bike. Does ride quality and comfort matter to you at all? If you don't race it would seem that ride quality should be at the very top of your shopping criteria. I highly doubt any of the pure TT bikes were designed with comfort in mind.

Slightly off-topic but perhaps this will make you forget about the Slice. Disk brakes will add significant weight to the bike, and a big chunk of the weight gain is rotational weight. On a rim brake, the braking forces is transferred entirely by the rim. There's no torque involved and the spokes don't take up any of the braking forces. On a disk brake, since the brake is grabbing the hub and not the rim, all of the braking forces have to move from the hub to the rim. Therefore a disk-brake wheel has to be made stronger by using more spokes, thicker rims, and stronger hubs. Hence disk specific wheels will be at least 1/2 lb or more heavier than an equivalent rim-brake wheelset. And that's not counting the rotors which will add another 1/2 lb or more. Now you have a pound of additional rotational weight to haul up the hill. I highly recommend you look into getting a good set of carbon wheels. The German Tour magazine has developed a carbon rim braking heat torture test in a lab setting. Many of the top names failed the test including Zipp. The Campy line of carbon clinchers all have passed the test with no structural and visible damage. Of course in the wet they are horrible but that's the price you pay for having carbon clinchers. Unless you ride in the rain frequently there's no need for disk brakes. If you encounter rain occasionally you can still get by with just rim brakes.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I've used all the new textured carbon brake tracks. Even in the dry, they lack initial bite compared to rim brakes. That combined with physically pulling cables makes for a mushy first second of braking. It's enough that the sensation of slowing down lags behind the whistle/chirp of the pads rubbing on the textured brake track. I'll probably end up with around 600,000ft of descending/climbing this year and I wouldn't expect a carbon brake track to last more than 3-4 years before showing signs of delamination, warping, excessive wear. I'd rather just unscrew a lockring and replace a $40 rotor.

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1331
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

TobinHatesYou wrote:I'd rather just unscrew a lockring and replace a $40 rotor.



Of course there's a solution to every problem however there are compromises. With that amount of climbing you are OK with dragging one additional pound of rotational weight and another pound of static weight up all those climbs? Also, as someone had already said, disk brakes on a TT bike will be a cable-actuated system and not a hydraulic system. So if you want hydraulic disk brakes it'll have to be on a normal bike, not a TT bike.

I also do a lot of climbing (515,705 ft. year-to-date) and I've gone through the disk vs. rim brake debate. I've decided that although disk brakes are nice, I don't want an additional pound of rotational weight and another pound of static weight. My next bike (already on order) will have direct mount rim brakes, which allow for no additional weight gain but offer superior power and modulation.

The Cannondale slice disk will make you a better descender but a lot worse climber. If you insist on a TT bike pick something that's non-disk.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Oh I'm not the OP and have no dreams of using a TT bike as a normal bike. That's dumb. That said I believe there are hydro TT levers from SRAM and FSA coming.

I'm certainly okay with the current weight of my disc bike (<16lbs with deep wheels and some other non-weenie parts.)

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1331
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

TobinHatesYou wrote:Oh I'm not the OP and have no dreams of using a TT bike as a normal bike. That's dumb. That said I believe there are hydro TT levers from SRAM and FSA coming.

I'm certainly okay with the current weight of my disc bike (<16lbs with deep wheels and some other non-weenie parts.)


Sorry about the mix up. Indeed you have a very nice disk bike. Now that's the bike I'd recommend to the OP :D

My next bike build will consists of a custom Ti frame. Weight wise it's already 1-1/2 lbs heavier than your Emonda SLR. It's just too much weight to add on disk brakes to an already heavy frame.

alcatraz
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'd like naca tube profiles on the frame and a frame integrated bar. (I kind of see the bars heading this way already. Now that there is electronic shifting we can just redesign the cockpit. Lets just jump ahead I say. I'm not much for drops.). I don't mind if the fit is extreme. I'd see it as a plus if the fit was comfortable but mostly aero. I have a WW bike now and I care about weight. The super slice looked like a candidate for a light aero disc brake bike that would be more than competitive in it's aeroness.

This has led me to TT/triathlon bikes. I'm not in love of discomfort, I just found I seem to be comfortable with quite low handlebars compared to my friends.

I'm also trying to get some good times on the local strava segments. I do this for fun while I'm riding. I don't race, but I like this innocent kind of competition. I also like feeling fit which comes as a result of these little games.

I already found that when I try to get a good time I often slide forward on the seat. It kind of tells me maybe the common road fit is not optimized for my needs.

Which bike best allows me to do that? Every second counts...

Ps. I don't feel comfortable getting an expensive wheelset and start eating away at the rims. I'm happy this guy is happy about his braking but I don't like it. Right now I'm using chinese 404 copies (2017). They have a variant of the NSW brake tracks with ridges and the brake tracks have been solid so far, except braking is not "bitey" enough for my taste. (with ss prince pads). Also I don't like heating my tire and inner tube to 200 degrees either which I could be doing with the campagnolos.

I have a WW climbing bike that I'm happy with. 5.9kg with 58mm deep clincher rims, not expensive. Probably paid under 1500usd for the whole bike. I'm probably going to keep it. Because my routes are so mixed I'd like both my bikes to be potent climbers so I don't want the bulky fairings. I do think it is possible to design a bike with naca profile tubes that is light and has an aero cockpit similar to a tt bike. Mechanical disc with sphyre sl and 50gr ultra light rotors maybe extralite hubs isn't going to be a huge weight penalty. I'm not rich but I could hunt these parts down over time.

/a Now you know where I come from.. :D

(Spare me the comments about "oh you have money for electronic but not for rims". I don't like braking on the rim. There are plenty of steep slopes out there, one day I will have a problem on one of them.)

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

If you worry about heating up your rims to much, you shouldn't use ultralight disc rotors either. And you should go 160mm instead of 140. A SRAM Centerline X will be 102g for example.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lieblingsleguan wrote:If you worry about heating up your rims to much, you shouldn't use ultralight disc rotors either. And you should go 160mm instead of 140. A SRAM Centerline X will be 102g for example.


Only the 6-bolt version of the 160mm Centerline X is 102g. The centerlock version is around 120g. The same goes for the Shimano RT-900S and Campagnolo H11 in 160mm.

alcatraz
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Lieblingsleguan wrote:If you worry about heating up your rims to much, you shouldn't use ultralight disc rotors either. And you should go 160mm instead of 140. A SRAM Centerline X will be 102g for example.


I guess I can toast the brake pads if I go over 300 degrees but I won't overheat the rims. How is the heat supposed to transfer to the rim?

Hopefully there is a pad/disc combo out there that can take some serious heat and still have a fair amount of bite. Generic ones might be unimpressive.

I don't think I can melt the disc. 140mm is going to give me relatively poor disc brake performance yes but I think I can drag the brakes as much as I like.

/a

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

alcatraz wrote:
Lieblingsleguan wrote:If you worry about heating up your rims to much, you shouldn't use ultralight disc rotors either. And you should go 160mm instead of 140. A SRAM Centerline X will be 102g for example.


I guess I can toast the brake pads if I go over 300 degrees but I won't overheat the rims. How is the heat supposed to transfer to the rim?

Hopefully there is a pad/disc combo out there that can take some serious heat and still have a fair amount of bite. Generic ones might be unimpressive.

I don't think I can melt the disc. 140mm is going to give me relatively poor disc brake performance yes but I think I can drag the brakes as much as I like.

/a

No you can't. You will warp the rotors Also, the braking power of a disc brake with 140mm rotors will be significantly worse than that of a rim brake.

But please, go ahead and build this bike. You have made up your mind obviously. I am looking forward to hear how this didn't turn out to be a heavy, uncomfortable, badly braking and badly handling bike.

by Weenie


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