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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:50 pm 
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I am a new to Campagnolo and looking for a bar that's allows me to most easily reach the thumb buttons while in the drops. I have small hands and I have been advised that the Zero100 is a great bar for this,but I noticed that it comes in both shallow and RHM shapes. What do you recommend?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:35 pm 
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The "SHALLOW" is kind of a misnomer in the Deda naming convention. In fact, it is deeper than the Zero 100 which has a drop of 130mm, versus the drop of the Zero 100 SHALLOW which has a drop of 135. The reach is also shorter on the Zero 100 at 75mm versus 80mm I believe on the Zero 100 SHALLOW. But the real difference is in the shape, whereas the Zero 100 has the RHM shape, the Zero 100 SHALLOW has a very "classic" shape with a straight section on the drops, which I really like. They both fit Campagnolo levers quite nicely and it comes down to personal preference in the end. The transition to the hoods from the bars is much flatter with the RHM bars versus the SHALLOW bars, which due to the classic shape, has a "ramp" down to the hoods and will result in the hoods being around 1.5-2cm lower than the tops of the bars at the stem. Again, I like that ramp but the choice is yours in the end.

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C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:35 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:36 pm 
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What about the Deda Superlegerra bars with Campy? Considering this setup for myself as seems to be a nice shape incorporating both traditional styling with some benefits of compact. @Calnago, any advice about Deda or other bars in general? I've read complaints about pre-2015 Deda being too fragile or easily damaged. Are the new iterations better? (My other option might be 3T Ergonova: 44cm at drops, 42.5ish at hoods)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:21 pm 
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If anything I would be more concerned about the new Superleggerra stuff being too light. I know this is WeightWeenies and all, but in my experience, beyond a certain point you don't get light weight without a compromise somewhere else. I'd say bar choice is about a personal a decision as saddles when it comes to shape, but I really do not like a bar/stem combo that seems at all flexy. I've never heard anything about pre 2015 Deda stuff being too fragile... except maybe those comments were limited to the pre 2015 Superleggera line of components. I've never used them. As for shapes, I had the Deda Presa (RHM) carbon bar a long time ago, but I didn't like the RHM shape so much and the small ovalized portion on the tops really required an angle at one spot only otherwise the edge seemed to jam into my palms more than I like. And I couldn't stand the internal cable routing on those bars, pretty much requiring you to insert the cables and housing into the levers unattached to the bars, then push everything onto the bars all simultaneously. I prefer simple round tops allowing a wide range of angle adjustments. I also prefer and nice longish flat drop where you put your hands, and I also like the ramp from the tops of the bars to the hoods. In other words, the Deda Zero 100 SHALLOW is about as classic as it gets these days, and it is what I prefer. It's an alloy bar, and I run it with either the Deda Zero 100 stem (-8 degree) or the Pro Vibe stem (-10 degree). I found the 3T carbon bars to be on the flexy side, and have run the LTD and TEAM versions of the Rotundo combined with the previous versions of the ARX TEAM stems. I do like some of the FSA bar shapes... as they fit Campy levers nicely, and although the drops area isn't completely flat, it's long enough and not too far from being flat that I like them ok as well. But when choosing bars, you really need to also consider the levers you're going to use and how they match up to them, as there are combinations that don't work at all imo but you still see people combining them, then wondering why they either can't reach the levers from the drops, or can't put them high enough on the bars. If you really like levers that kind of sit high on a tight radius curved bar, then Shimano levers work better than Campy. But on Classic shaped bars I think Campy really fits nicely, and especially nice on Deda stuff. Also, the choice of bars shouldn't be overlooked when you're sizing your fit etc., as a classic shape bar with a ramp might place the levers and where you put your hands a good 1.5-2cm lower than the tops of the bars at the stem for instance. So don't go cutting the steertube until you're pretty much set on which bars and set up you want to use in the long term etc.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Location: Canada (BC) (formerly F, B, L, D and CH)
I use a Deda Superleggera/ Superleggero combo (with Campa SR mech.) as I wanted to have something light but also absorbing the road vibration, either when the road are in a bad shape and when I ride many hours. This combo is good but if you want something which will not flex at all you should look at other alternatives indeed.

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- Currently: Road: '15 Colnago C60 SR 6.5kg | '94/'99 Colnago Dream DA 8 speed (rain/ winter/ home trainer) | MTB: '12 Scott Scale & Scott Spark XTR 26"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
If anything I would be more concerned about the new Superleggerra stuff being too light. I know this is WeightWeenies and all, but in my experience, beyond a certain point you don't get light weight without a compromise somewhere else. I'd say bar choice is about a personal a decision as saddles when it comes to shape, but I really do not like a bar/stem combo that seems at all flexy. I've never heard anything about pre 2015 Deda stuff being too fragile... except maybe those comments were limited to the pre 2015 Superleggera line of components. I've never used them. As for shapes, I had the Deda Presa (RHM) carbon bar a long time ago, but I didn't like the RHM shape so much and the small ovalized portion on the tops really required an angle at one spot only otherwise the edge seemed to jam into my palms more than I like. And I couldn't stand the internal cable routing on those bars, pretty much requiring you to insert the cables and housing into the levers unattached to the bars, then push everything onto the bars all simultaneously. I prefer simple round tops allowing a wide range of angle adjustments. I also prefer and nice longish flat drop where you put your hands, and I also like the ramp from the tops of the bars to the hoods. In other words, the Deda Zero 100 SHALLOW is about as classic as it gets these days, and it is what I prefer. It's an alloy bar, and I run it with either the Deda Zero 100 stem (-8 degree) or the Pro Vibe stem (-10 degree). I found the 3T carbon bars to be on the flexy side, and have run the LTD and TEAM versions of the Rotundo combined with the previous versions of the ARX TEAM stems. I do like some of the FSA bar shapes... as they fit Campy levers nicely, and although the drops area isn't completely flat, it's long enough and not too far from being flat that I like them ok as well. But when choosing bars, you really need to also consider the levers you're going to use and how they match up to them, as there are combinations that don't work at all imo but you still see people combining them, then wondering why they either can't reach the levers from the drops, or can't put them high enough on the bars. If you really like levers that kind of sit high on a tight radius curved bar, then Shimano levers work better than Campy. But on Classic shaped bars I think Campy really fits nicely, and especially nice on Deda stuff. Also, the choice of bars shouldn't be overlooked when you're sizing your fit etc., as a classic shape bar with a ramp might place the levers and where you put your hands a good 1.5-2cm lower than the tops of the bars at the stem for instance. So don't go cutting the steertube until you're pretty much set on which bars and set up you want to use in the long term etc.


Since u have experience in Shallow vs RHM shape, how u compare them in term of reach? Which of them have shorter reach in real life?

I like Shallow shape since it have bigger drop, but donot know how is it in term of reach. Somehow i feel that i can tolerate bigger drop in drops position, but not bigger reach in hood position.
And which shape allow higher levers positioning with smoth transition to the hood and without bumb on the start of the hood? (im not sure if it's possible at all to be bump on shallow shape) (i hate Bumb on start of the hood when u install levers higher on some bars)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:48 pm 
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You really just have to experiment and find what works for you. I had no problem installing campy levers on the RHM shape bars and didn't notice a "bump". Much flatter transition to the hoods if that's what you want so the hoods are more or less at the same height as the tops of the bars at the stem. An easy solution to that bump is just to use some Sugru to mold around it a bit creating a nice transition, or be careful how you tape it around there. Like I stated, some bars fit certain levers better than others. I used to run Deda Deep bars a long time ago, and they have something like a 95mm reach, but I ran them with a 120mm stem versus a 130mm stem like I do now. And keep in mind that the body is remarkably adaptable to small changes, so just because your Retul "fit professional" or whoever and whatever system they use has come up with a range of something like a few millimeters where they say "this is your optimal fit", don't be afraid to experiment. I consider any "professional fit" merely a starting point to get you in the right ballpark, but ultimately, it's your body so don't discount your own feelings and perceptions you have while riding in all the styles and conditions and durations and efforts that you do.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Posts: 1312
I have been on the Superleggera for the last couple of years and really like the reach and the shape of the drops. My "low" position is sphinx more often than it's in the drops so I typically don't care for a deep drop. I believe I am capable of generating more torque on bars than typical cyclists and have never understood why people would describe these bars as flexy. They absolutely feel more rigid than the last couple Zipp and Enve bars I've ridden. At least on par with Ritchey.

All of that said, I just replaced my bars this week as the newer bar has partially internal routing that, combined with iLinks, did not let me put Campy levers exactly where I wanted them. I've got to snag pictures but they'll be listed for sale here this week.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Location: Canada (BC) (formerly F, B, L, D and CH)
Edit: My superleggera bars are my first carbon bars - so I suppose I feel them flexy compared to my aluminium bars.

_________________
- Currently: Road: '15 Colnago C60 SR 6.5kg | '94/'99 Colnago Dream DA 8 speed (rain/ winter/ home trainer) | MTB: '12 Scott Scale & Scott Spark XTR 26"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Not singling you out, Tony. I was just poring over pages for comparisons lately and noticed a surprising number of comments calling the bars "flexy." Suppose it'd be worth knowing what they're comparing against! I haven't ridden AL bars in ages.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Posts: 652
TonyM wrote:
I use a Deda Superleggera/ Superleggero combo (with Campa SR mech.) as I wanted to have something light but also absorbing the road vibration, either when the road are in a bad shape and when I ride many hours. This combo is good but if you want something which will not flex at all you should look at other alternatives indeed.


Try if u have a chance Easton EC90SLX3. Stiff, and still absorb everything very nice.. Its' much more stiffer then my Zipp Service Course SL80 which replaced (alloy), in same time very comfortable. Im also using Easton EC90SL handlebar on my MTB and very satisfied as well.

I must admit that i decided in last moment for Easton over Deda Superleggera, since Superleggera is maybe best looking Hadlebar.

One of the reason for my decision was Friend of mine who have it show me that is flexy in the drops, and also he said was pissed off installing cables using internal routing. Still he still have it for maybe 2-3 years, which means at the end is satisfed (The last time we had discussion about handlebars, he was still wondering to go for Superzero to gain more stifness. Anyway he got improvement when he replaced the Superleggera Stem with MOST Pinarello (also 50 gm heavier))..But Anyway EC90SLX3 is definetely stiffer, and u watch out careffully u can find out very cheap (on chainreactioncycles for few months was about 100 eur).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
You really just have to experiment and find what works for you. I had no problem installing campy levers on the RHM shape bars and didn't notice a "bump". Much flatter transition to the hoods if that's what you want so the hoods are more or less at the same height as the tops of the bars at the stem. An easy solution to that bump is just to use some Sugru to mold around it a bit creating a nice transition, or be careful how you tape it around there. Like I stated, some bars fit certain levers better than others. I used to run Deda Deep bars a long time ago, and they have something like a 95mm reach, but I ran them with a 120mm stem versus a 130mm stem like I do now. And keep in mind that the body is remarkably adaptable to small changes, so just because your Retul "fit professional" or whoever and whatever system they use has come up with a range of something like a few millimeters where they say "this is your optimal fit", don't be afraid to experiment. I consider any "professional fit" merely a starting point to get you in the right ballpark, but ultimately, it's your body so don't discount your own feelings and perceptions you have while riding in all the styles and conditions and durations and efforts that you do.



In this moment im experimenting with hood angle (riding the bike without tape and trying different options). But somehow i went out of time, and just few short rides like that, so hope from tommorow i'll have my riding time again. It's interesting whenever i try something new, at the end the position i like when i check is very close as fitter suggested. .

And one of the reason im asking this because im willing to experiment beside my fitter told me, but still to have idea if the experiment is worth or not (specially when im buying parts which are hard to sell when im wrong). Im still interested to order and test ride it Shallow shape, but the last time i was almost done that, i decide to dont do it , beeing afraid that reach will be too long.

I can go shorter stem, but that way the reach to tops will be shorter then now, and that will be too short in that position, which i use for climbing often. So that whu im interested about reach between RHM and Shallow in real world use.


Last edited by 3Pio on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:44 am 
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Posts: 126
3Pio wrote:
Somehow i feel that i can tolerate bigger drop in drops position, but not bigger reach in hood position.


I totally know what you mean and feel the exact same way. My current Bontreger bars are very deep and I actually want to move my stem down a cm or so on my old Trek. I actually feel *more* comfortable in the drops than I do the hoods, but of course only for so long. On the hoods though the shape really stretches me forward.

Calnago wrote:
And keep in mind that the body is remarkably adaptable to small changes, so just because your Retul "fit professional" or whoever and whatever system they use has come up with a range of something like a few millimeters where they say "this is your optimal fit", don't be afraid to experiment. I consider any "professional fit" merely a starting point to get you in the right ballpark, but ultimately, it's your body so don't discount your own feelings and perceptions you have while riding in all the styles and conditions and durations and efforts that you do.


Also agree with this and it's somewhat my predicament. Basing my new build more on experience and intuition and past experimentation more than a pro fit. Hence I'm probably giving the bars more thought than most. But living in a rural area I don't really have access to LBS, so not easy to try anything to get a feel. That said, I definitely want a *different* shape than my old bars! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Are all Dedas RHM bars the same shape?

The choice between them are carbon vs alu - right?


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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Posts: 652
While we are on topic about handlebars again..

One of the reason i still think that Deda is nice choice (even i never had until now), is the fact that i dont know other compact modern handlebar which dont flare at the drops. As i can see Deda's are same width in hoods, and in drops which seem that i like.

And do u know other handlebar which dont flare out? And why most modern handlebars are designed that way? Is there any benefit?


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