Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:43 am

All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Romania
I will soon receive a new PF86 frame and install Campy cups. Seller also had Loctite 648, not the more quoted 603 or 609, but I think I will do as fine. No primer available. If absolutely mandatory, I will try to get some, but I am hoping to hear it works without as well.

My plan is to clean carefully the BB interior and the cups with alcohol, then try to engage them in a bit by hand. Set up the press. Spread loctite around the cup then start screwing. Should I go very fast when pressing? I've read it can start to seize in as little as 5 seconds, but perhaps this only happens when primer is present.

Thanks


Top
   
 Post subject: Loctite 648 BB tips?
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:21 am 


Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Boganville, Australia
If the cups need a press to fit them, you probably shouldn't need Loctite. I have an older Giant TCR where the drive side cup is still a good tight press fit i.e. have to use a press to get it to fit. I have just used a Soudal silicone paste on that side, without issue. The Non Drive side is loose and I have used 648 on that, with some primer. It does not set quickly. If you look at the data sheets from Loctite, it takes about 3 days to get to near full strength. I left mine for about 4 days. The loose cup on an older TCR frame is apparently not uncommon.

_________________
MAMIL? Never. O.F.I.L. yeh! (Old F**ker in Lycra)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Romania
I am getting a 2017 TCR SL. Will check the fit first with calipers but my inner voice wants Loctite in any case. I am 95k and also been plagued by chainring screws creaking on my current bike. I want it bombproof from the first try :D


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Posts: 72
Location: United Kingdom
Bogan wrote:
If the cups need a press to fit them, you probably shouldn't need Loctite.


It must depend on the BB standard, bbright recommend Loctite "if the fit is loose;" which Cervelo owners will tell you that is the case every single time or suffer the absolute annoyance of creeks :lol:

http://www.bbright.net/BBrightTM-Press- ... ctions.pdf


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Boganville, Australia
Good enough!

_________________
MAMIL? Never. O.F.I.L. yeh! (Old F**ker in Lycra)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bogan wrote:
If the cups need a press to fit them, you probably shouldn't need Loctite. I have an older Giant TCR where the drive side cup is still a good tight press fit i.e. have to use a press to get it to fit. I have just used a Soudal silicone paste on that side, without issue. The Non Drive side is loose and I have used 648 on that, with some primer. It does not set quickly. If you look at the data sheets from Loctite, it takes about 3 days to get to near full strength. I left mine for about 4 days. The loose cup on an older TCR frame is apparently not uncommon.


How quickly Loctite 648 (or any of the gap fillers) set varies based on the gap. I can confirm that with a very small gap/light press fit, it will set nearly instantly. With a larger gap, yeah, hours and sometimes a full day is necessary in my experience.

The thing to consider with Loctite 648 is that it is considerably stronger than 609, at least by 50% if my memory serves me correctly. For something like a BB bearing that will at some point need to be replaced and can't be easily heated, 648 would not be my first choice.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Romania
joejack951 wrote:
How quickly Loctite 648 (or any of the gap fillers) set varies based on the gap. I can confirm that with a very small gap/light press fit, it will set nearly instantly.


Have you had problems pressing cups all the way in because of a fast set? I would rather ride with creaks than not ride at all :) I should have tried to get some 609 from ebay but since 648 was available with the frame...

As for later removal, i am not even considering using the hammer method. It obviously works in most cases but I find it barbaric. I have very good diamond files and should be easy to make a couple slits in the cup then press it "in itself" from the sides.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 1353
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
as above 648 is 'high' strength

i've put bb30 bearings in with 'medium' strength 609, let me tell you about 'medium'...

i tried first improvising an extractor with a 14mm bolt, the thick steel washer just buckled and was drawn against the bearing, even using a hammer it was impossible to shift them - i had the frame horizontal and shell braced against a large piece of wood, i hit it so hard it was scary, had no effect on the bearings

in the end i had to use a heat gun to get the bb shell hot enough to weaken the loctite so that i could hammer them out, it was 150-200 celsius, fortunately this was all steel so this temperature was not a problem, well, except for the smoking bearing seals

aside from that, looking at the data sheet, 648 could take a week to reach full strength depending on conditions, varies with gap, materials, temperature

based on experience, if i ever need to loctite something in a frame again, i'll try 641 first as it is just 'low' strength!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Boganville, Australia
648 was designed as a bearing retainer for larger gaps. In this case I would be using 609 if I was using Loctite at all.

_________________
MAMIL? Never. O.F.I.L. yeh! (Old F**ker in Lycra)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1017
Location: FIN
I'm using 648 religiously for 4-5 years now. Never had any issue with creaking on people's BB30/A , nor any other pressfit, including my own. Removal do not require any heating . Assembly strength is kind of wish from Loctite, not real. Not in bb shells. Important is that it holds, and doesn't creak.

BTW if you find some video on YT about Cannondale-Garmin ( few years old ) team mechanics; you'll find they used 648 for BB bearing assembly.

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4749
Unless you can easily insert the cups all the way by hand, use 609 plus the primer (if it is a carbon shell). It wants a fairly quick even press. It does set up very quickly but don't panic. Sometimes you may hear a loud pop as it goes in and you think you've just broken the frame. Unlikely, that's just the retaining compound setting and grabbing on the way. Keep pressing all the way in. Use PROPER drifts in the cups... none of this big flat washer against the outer edges of the cups. Leave the press and drifts in the thing for 24 hours. This helps ensure that the cups are aligned and straight, really critical for a campy ultratorque system.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bogan wrote:
648 was designed as a bearing retainer for larger gaps. In this case I would be using 609 if I was using Loctite at all.


Both 648 and 609 are designed for pretty small gaps. Henkel shows data for 648 up to 0.25mm (.010") gaps and 609 up to 0.2mm (.008") gaps. I would hope that no 'press fit' shell for BB30 or PF30 would have anywhere near that amount of clearance, even when well worn.

648 datasheet: http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/ ... mpound.pdf

609 datasheet: https://tds.us.henkel.com/NA/UT/HNAUTTD ... 609-EN.pdf


Last edited by joejack951 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Wilmington, DE
stormur wrote:
I'm using 648 religiously for 4-5 years now. Never had any issue with creaking on people's BB30/A , nor any other pressfit, including my own. Removal do not require any heating . Assembly strength is kind of wish from Loctite, not real. Not in bb shells. Important is that it holds, and doesn't creak.

BTW if you find some video on YT about Cannondale-Garmin ( few years old ) team mechanics; you'll find they used 648 for BB bearing assembly.


Bond strength is very much dependent on the surface finish, surface prep, and bond gaps. The important thing for bicycle bottom bracket bearings is to keep them from moving so any product that fills any gaps present and stays there will do the trick. No need to go high strength for something that can't easily be inserted into a hydraulic press or heated to high temps for disassembly.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 1017
Location: FIN
Did you read what you quoted ? NEVER heat it for removal.

Never used press either.

But let assume that I'm wrong, Garmin mechanics are wrong... you're right :mrgreen:

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Posts: 2195
Location: Houston, Texas
Alexandrumarian wrote:
I will soon receive a new PF86 frame and install Campy cups.

While in the past I have advocated for Loctite 609 for PF30/PF86 applications, that was based on bottom bracket shells with alloy inserts. Based on my experience with my 2016 Scott Solace Disc, which has an all carbon bottom bracket shell, I am going to suggest you seriously consider not using any form of Loctite unless absolutely necessary! This past weekend, in order to replace hydraulic brake hose required for DA ST-9170 shifters install, I had to remove a KCNC alloy PF86 assembly which was previously installed used Loctite 609. to To remove the bottom bracket assembly, I first tried my Enduro BRT-003 tool which typically makes easy work of the removal task. Due to the retaining compound, the tool simply pulled the bearings, and so was completely ineffective at removing the cups, so I had to resort to using a Park BBT-90.3 tool and a large hammer to force one side out then the other!

_________________
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Loctite 648 BB tips?
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:38 pm 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Loctite and Bearings in Carbon Shell BB

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 ]

in Road

Mr.Gib

37

3208

Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:26 pm

nickf View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. e-Tube programming tips

in Road

sturvey

6

929

Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:31 pm

gbrown View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cable routing tips for a Di2 newbie

in Road

simurs4

3

684

Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:50 am

jlok View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Attachment(s) Tips for covering holes with sugru?

in Road

hannawald

9

750

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:23 pm

oldnslow2 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Tips for dura ace 9000 hood replacement.

in Road

SpecializedColnago

8

1342

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:21 pm

rossjm11 View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], uraz, Vieuxchnoque and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited