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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm
Posts: 58
hey everyone,

so i am trying to install the knurled nut on a SRAM Red chainring for the hidden bolt chainset... but i can't get the thing seated. i follow the directions on SRAM's site: i put the knurled nut on the outside of the chainring in the hole that will behind the crank arm. i thread its companion bolt into the nut, again from the outside, which is to say the side that would be facing the rear of the crankarm, the same side i put the knurled nut in. then i line the washer up on the inside, effectively creating a knurled nut sandwich. i put the whole set-up in a vice. and i crank... and crank... but nothing happens. i can kind of see where the nut begins to bite into the edges of the hole, but nothing... is it possible my vice is not vice enough? it is not a big vice, merely something cheap i bought to hold stuff that needs holding, but maybe not a solid enough vice to really torque... ?

am i doing something wrong? or is it a weenie vice?

thanks!

o


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Loveland, CO
The nut can only be pulled in with the chainrings and crank in place. In other words, it's a one step process and not a two-step process. Once you got the nut on the big ring, assemble everything like you normally would. When you tighten the special bolt it will pull the special nut in. Once you cannot turn the bolt anymore that means the nut has been fully seated.


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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:55 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 167
Location: Sydney
A good idea is to wedge a piece of folded cardboard or the like between the crankarm and the chainrings to hold the little nut in place while you screw in the bolt from the outside.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:48 am 
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Posts: 58
hey wow thanks for this info! what in the world does sram have on their website!?

i will give the cardboard wedge a try!

thanks again,

o


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm
Posts: 58
what is this?

https://www.quarq.com/wp-content/upload ... ng_Nut.pdf


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Posts: 90
I followed the Quarq/ SRAM instructions and used a bench vice. What a pain in the backside it was. I don't know why they make things so difficult. Both my bikes run SRAM now and one thing I noticed when building both bikes up is how much the SRAM instructions sucked.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm
Posts: 58
leicaman wrote:
I followed the Quarq/ SRAM instructions and used a bench vice. What a pain in the backside it was. I don't know why they make things so difficult. Both my bikes run SRAM now and one thing I noticed when building both bikes up is how much the SRAM instructions sucked.


ugh, yeah i guess my bench vice is not vice enough. or my little cyclist arms are not arm enough. i will try the vice one more time, then move on to other things. or maybe find a vicer vice.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:12 am 
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Posts: 1867
Location: Welland, Ontario
In all my years of looking at bicycle installation instructions I don't think I've ever seen a bench vice needed before.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:12 am
Posts: 167
Location: Sydney
I have installed HB on 2 sets of Quarq Dzero's NEVER used the vice! The little hidden nut whist being knurled only stops it from spinning, not falling out when pressed in... So all I ever did was but the rest of the chainring bolts in as normal, slip the knurled nut in place between the crank arm and inner ring, slide in a wedge of cardboard to hold it there from falling out, had wind in the bolt then as I tightened it normally with an allen key it pulls in and doesn't spin, then torque it and that's that's...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:35 am 
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Posts: 437
I just used this device to get the knurled nut in. Used a bit bigger ring to put the knurled nut in so it could be seated - 10 minutes for 2 chainsets.

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Loveland, CO
sp3000 wrote:
I have installed HB on 2 sets of Quarq Dzero's NEVER used the vice! The little hidden nut whist being knurled only stops it from spinning, not falling out when pressed in... So all I ever did was but the rest of the chainring bolts in as normal, slip the knurled nut in place between the crank arm and inner ring, slide in a wedge of cardboard to hold it there from falling out, had wind in the bolt then as I tightened it normally with an allen key it pulls in and doesn't spin, then torque it and that's that's...


+1. I just saw the Sram instruction on using a bench vise. LoL. I have never used a vice. It's a one-step installation process. A bench vice will surely scratch up a beautiful chainring...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm
Posts: 58
yeah so i decided to forgo the bench vice and just use an allen key and a big of rubber wedged between the crankarm and the knurled nut-- it went in no problem!

clearly the vice works, too, but i do not know why sram suggests that when, as mentioned, it seems like a way one could damage their nice componenets-- and why risk that?

the photo is the bit of rubber i used; a reach adjuster thing for an older shimano STI i think it is?

thanks everyone for the insight!

o

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Loveland, CO
I'm glad it worked out for you. By the way, sometimes not reading the instruction manual helps, as it does in this case :D

Lastly, if you buy a 11-speed Red chainring it doesn't come with a knurled nut, since the chainring is a dual-use version that can be used on both hidden-bolt and non-hidden-bolt cranks. But if you buy a 10-speed chainring that is specifically made for a hidden-bolt design, it comes with a knurled nut already installed at the factory. The benefit of a 1-speed chainring is that there's only one chain guard, whereas you have to remove one of the two chain guards on a 11-speed chainring. I use 10-speed Red chainrings on my 11-speed system with no problems (Shimano Di2).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Just as an FYI, I don't know why SRAM decided the knurled nut approach was best here, but I do know why they suggest the vice to set it (or an approach like @Pinarene shows a few posts above). It's because if you just rely on the other side to "pull it in" so to speak, the knurls can turn if not fully seated and act like a grinder or file on the inside of the rings it's supposed to seat against, thus lessening the binding effect of the knurls or in worst case scenario, eventually rendering the binding effect useless. Went through this on a corroded Time stem which also uses some knurled bolts. What happens is that it doesn't seat anymore and trying to torque the bolt properly does nothing except spin both sides.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Posts: 58
Calnago wrote:
Just as an FYI, I don't know why SRAM decided the knurled nut approach was best here, but I do know why they suggest the vice to set it (or an approach like @Pinarene shows a few posts above). It's because if you just rely on the other side to "pull it in" so to speak, the knurls can turn if not fully seated and act like a grinder or file on the inside of the rings it's supposed to seat against, thus lessening the binding effect of the knurls or in worst case scenario, eventually rendering the binding effect useless. Went through this on a corroded Time stem which also uses some knurled bolts. What happens is that it doesn't seat anymore and trying to torque the bolt properly does nothing except spin both sides.



ah ha! needless to say i had not thought of that... ugh. maybe i ought to do it with the bench vice? i just need to find a really sturdy one because mine was clearly not up to the task... what did you do with the time stem that had the knurled nut stripping issue, calnago?


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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:35 pm 


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