Hollowgram SI - using 109mm spindle instead of 104mm

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

Hi, I've searched and searched but can't find an answer to this odd problem so hope someone can help:

I've got a 2015 supersix evo hi mod frameset and just bought a Hollowgram SI chainset to put on it.
Unfortunately, the guy I bought it from had it on a Synapse and thus had a 109mm spindle, rather than a 104mm spindle (never crossed my mind)
Tried to assemble but failed as the spindle was too wide for the shell so there was no compression at all.

Question:
Can I use the 109mm spindle if I get x2 2.5mm spacers and put one on either side? Or am I oversimplifying?

Thanks,
Ben

by Weenie


Kurets
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm

by Kurets

BB30A is assymetric. You need one 5mm spacer on the NDS thats it. It will not change the pedalling geometry or bearing load compared to BB30, so all will be fine.

AZR3
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

Just follow this
Image

Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

Kurets wrote:BB30A is assymetric. You need one 5mm spacer on the NDS thats it. It will not change the pedalling geometry or bearing load compared to BB30, so all will be fine.


That's really helpful, thanks. Can I just check to make sure I fully understand:
- My BB = BB30 (68mm) would normally take a 104mm spindle
- A 109mm spindle is designed for BB30A (73mm, 5mm added to the NDS)
- by adding 5mm spacer to the NDS I effectively increase the width of the BB by 5mm to compensate for the longer spindel.
- does that mean also mean I'm increasing my Q factor by 5mm or does the SI chainset compensate through crank arm geometry?

I've ordered some SRAM BB spacers (2x 2.5mm) as I couldn't find a 5mm BB spacer. Will that do?


Thanks again

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

I believe the Q factor will remain the same as a standard BB30.

There has been a long perpetuated myth that the BB30 design produces a low "Q" factor. An untruth which keeps getting repeated and won't go away.

The design does offer more ankle clearance than others but there is no inherent "Q" factor difference when compared to any other crankset.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

dudemanppl
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

by dudemanppl

The newer generation Hollowgram cranks (with newer graphics), have the Q-Factor difference factored in to the arms already. The Q-Factor is the same with a 109 spindle as it was with the old cranks with a 104 spindle. If you use the new set with a 104 spindle, your Q-Factor will be 5mm narrower, which takes it down to 139mm.

Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

dudemanppl wrote:The newer generation Hollowgram cranks (with newer graphics), have the Q-Factor difference factored in to the arms already. The Q-Factor is the same with a 109 spindle as it was with the old cranks with a 104 spindle. If you use the new set with a 104 spindle, your Q-Factor will be 5mm narrower, which takes it down to 139mm.


I've got these
http://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Gear/G ... 8548e38fe1
Do you know if they have the Q-factor compensation worked into the arms already?
Attachments
c16_SiSL25034Hero_2.jpg
My crank set

evan326
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Location: RVA,USA

by evan326

I am just about done putting together a 2015 caad10. I'm using a 109mm spindle, 2.5mm DS spacer, 7.5mm NDS spacer, and wave washer. This bike has a 68mm shell also, my caad12 has a 73mm shell. I can use the same cranks between both bikes, I just use the 2.6mm NDS spacer on the caad12 and the 7.6mm NDS spacer on the caad10.

dudemanppl
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:09 am

by dudemanppl

Bliquid wrote:I've got these
http://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Gear/G ... 8548e38fe1
Do you know if they have the Q-factor compensation worked into the arms already?


Yes, thats the "corrected Q-Factor" crankset.

Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

Thanks, I'll pop the 5mm on when it arrives and report back.
B

Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

So 5mm spacer NDS isn't giving me enough compression - not sure why, given that my maths tells me that should make up for the difference between a 109 and a 104 spindle but the wave washer isn't even being touched when assembled (haven't torqued it fully but can see that another quarter turn of the bolt wouldn't cut it).

Evan, regarding the below, can I just clarify: on your CAAD10 are you using 7.5NDS (to get the right compression) and then 2.5 DS to make sure the chainset is still only positioned 5mm further out on the NDS to compensate for using a 68mm BB30, rather than the 73mm BB30A(symmetrical)?

evan326 wrote:I am just about done putting together a 2015 caad10. I'm using a 109mm spindle, 2.5mm DS spacer, 7.5mm NDS spacer, and wave washer. This bike has a 68mm shell also, my caad12 has a 73mm shell. I can use the same cranks between both bikes, I just use the 2.6mm NDS spacer on the caad12 and the 7.6mm NDS spacer on the caad10.


EDIT just found the attached on the Qwerty website - hard to read but basically says 7.5mm NDS 2.6mm DS. Don't have a 2.6 but guessing a 2.5 should do the job?

Thanks,
B
Attachments
Screen Shot 2017-08-26 at 10.33.05.png

glepore
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Pa USA

by glepore

Also, be sure your spindle is oriented correctly, it has a drive and a non drive side.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

evan326
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Location: RVA,USA

by evan326

Bliquid wrote:So 5mm spacer NDS isn't giving me enough compression - not sure why, given that my maths tells me that should make up for the difference between a 109 and a 104 spindle but the wave washer isn't even being touched when assembled (haven't torqued it fully but can see that another quarter turn of the bolt wouldn't cut it).

Evan, regarding the below, can I just clarify: on your CAAD10 are you using 7.5NDS (to get the right compression) and then 2.5 DS to make sure the chainset is still only positioned 5mm further out on the NDS to compensate for using a 68mm BB30, rather than the 73mm BB30A(symmetrical)?

evan326 wrote:I am just about done putting together a 2015 caad10. I'm using a 109mm spindle, 2.5mm DS spacer, 7.5mm NDS spacer, and wave washer. This bike has a 68mm shell also, my caad12 has a 73mm shell. I can use the same cranks between both bikes, I just use the 2.6mm NDS spacer on the caad12 and the 7.6mm NDS spacer on the caad10.


EDIT just found the attached on the Qwerty website - hard to read but basically says 7.5mm NDS 2.6mm DS. Don't have a 2.6 but guessing a 2.5 should do the job?

Thanks,
B
2.5mm was a typo. It is 2.6mm on the DS. They are marked if thry are for the DS or NDS. The 2.5mm is flanged for the NDS and the 2.6mm is not. The 7.5mmNDS is for my 68mm shelled caad10. I think you're overcomplicating this a lot. If you have 2.6mm DS and 7.5mmNDS and it is still a little loose you just add .5mm spacers till the wave washer has compression.
I did forget about making sure the spindle is in the right direction. Checkout the cannondale diagram above.

Stage21 cycling sell all of the spacer sizes of you need some

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Bliquid
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 pm

by Bliquid

Thanks. Final question as I don't have the original Cannondale spacers. Does it matter if they're flanged or not? Is it to do with avoiding too much pressure on the bearings?
Can't seem to get my hands on those spacers from a UK retailer so may need to order from the U.S.
Thanks

by Weenie


evan326
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Location: RVA,USA

by evan326

I can't say why, but the NDS does need to be flanged, the DS is not.
https://www.stage21bikes.com/stage-21-h ... e-spacers/ is at least one place to source them from. Hope that helps!

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