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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Location: Vienna Austria
possibleweenie wrote:
Corsa G+: Perhaps the better one when it comes to puncture resistance. Similar to the Schwalbe Pro One, the 25mm will balloon to about 27-28 depending on rim.

Spec TC: The lightest one but the more fragile one. Seen by many as a race day only tire because of being prone to punctures. 24mm is 24mm and 26mm is 26mm

Veloflex: 25mm is a true 25mm. Some people say they are smoother than the Corsas or the tire the Corsas aim to be. Not enough info on puncture resistance or any other difference. Apparently more affordable than the Corsas but I have yet to confirm this.


I rode a set of Turbo Cottons until the rear was square and didn't have a single puncture. They are quite tough actually. They are heavier than the Veloflexes. G+ are even heavier though.

All 3 are excellent tires. Veloflex are a bargain. They do run narrower than the others, which is a plus in my book.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Miller wrote:
Lol, love your diagrams and they do convey your meaning.


Haha. Thanks!

To give the Pro Ones another shot today I dropped the pressure to 65 and they become A LOT better, but now the tire feels like it's wobbling underneath in some manouvres I did.

I think the Pro One's will be promoted to almighty winter tires (I read their grip in the wet and cold is still excellent as when dry) and the fact that I'll mix them with orange seal should pretty much make for a nice smooth winter tire instead of the Durano Pluses I currently have for that job.


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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:23 pm 
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hlvd wrote:
How about Bontrager R4 320? Lovely tyre and rides so smooth.


Did have a passing thought about them but the price made me focus more on the Corsas, Vreds and Veloflexes.

They all seem to be more or less on par with each other from what I read on feel so I sort of thought that there wasn't anything particularly attractive to them to make them worth 12eur or so more, per tyre, than the others.

Will have a rethink and try to get a bit more info on them, though. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Marin wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
Corsa G+: Perhaps the better one when it comes to puncture resistance. Similar to the Schwalbe Pro One, the 25mm will balloon to about 27-28 depending on rim.

Spec TC: The lightest one but the more fragile one. Seen by many as a race day only tire because of being prone to punctures. 24mm is 24mm and 26mm is 26mm

Veloflex: 25mm is a true 25mm. Some people say they are smoother than the Corsas or the tire the Corsas aim to be. Not enough info on puncture resistance or any other difference. Apparently more affordable than the Corsas but I have yet to confirm this.


I rode a set of Turbo Cottons until the rear was square and didn't have a single puncture. They are quite tough actually. They are heavier than the Veloflexes. G+ are even heavier though.

All 3 are excellent tires. Veloflex are a bargain. They do run narrower than the others, which is a plus in my book.


You may be one of the few I have read that feels the Spec TC are tough. On the other hand, Veloflexes are, in general, really well received.

Since the 25c ones seem to size to about 23c in the Veloflexes, would you think I'd have an issue with a 24mm external, 19 internal, rims?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:28 pm 
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try a different tubeless tyres. I have had different tubeless tyres that on the face of it should feel similar but they dont. Some tubeless tyres feel right at lower pressures. I ride my 28's at 50-80 psi depending on how often I pump them up oddly at 50 psi they feel quite good. As I have 320 tpi tubs which I get out now and again they dont feel al whole lot different. So yes try a different tubeless tyre the Pro one are alright but they are not the last word in tubeless technology.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:33 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
try a different tubeless tyres. I have had different tubeless tyres that on the face of it should feel similar but they dont. Some tubeless tyres feel right at lower pressures. I ride my 28's at 50-80 psi depending on how often I pump them up oddly at 50 psi they feel quite good. As I have 320 tpi tubs which I get out now and again they dont feel al whole lot different. So yes try a different tubeless tyre the Pro one are alright but they are not the last word in tubeless technology.


I guess my case is of twice bitten, fourfold shy. I got two pairs of tubeless. The Pro Ones in 25c (which on my 19c rim they balloon to 29mm at 100psi and 28mm at 80psi) and G One 40c in 650B running at 55psi. I find the of both similar, but the Pro One being the less bouncy at 80psi.

My inclination right now is to do latex again trying to find out how does it really feel to run high TPI tyres. Maybe I get completely tired or frustrated. Maybe I end up loving it too much to the point of not doing 700c tubeless again until the "sine-qua-non high TPI feel".

My first thought when I built my bike was to get 28c tires if I can fit them. However, since my 25c balloon to 28-29mm on my rims already, I don't have anything but a couple of mm left in between the chain stays. The fork as well is looking a bit tight already so, sadly, no chance for 28s on my frame.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Posts: 75
I think I have decided what I am going to do. I'm going to try a couple of those tires. I'll get a pair of the Veloflexes as soon as anyone can confirm me if I will not have any issue with them fitting into my 19c internal/24mm external rims since they seem to size a bit skinny by most people's account except this guy:

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... corsa-2016

Corsa and Master are the same bar the colour of the side wall.

Def getting a pair of the Vredesteins as well. I hope I'll be able to report something useful back. I fear that they may feel slow because of the AWS thing. naambezet wrote that the Vredesteins use the same casing as the Corsas, but I wonder if that will help with their infamous rolling resistance they get reported all around. I do fear that Vredestein is using the same compound on all of their Senso tires. We'll see.

I hope I get to report something useful back to you all soon!

Thank you everyone for the feedback and if anyone wants to keep chiming in, please do. We are all reading, I am sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:59 am 
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possibleweenie wrote:
I think I have decided what I am going to do. I'm going to try a couple of those tires. I'll get a pair of the Veloflexes as soon as anyone can confirm me if I will not have any issue with them fitting into my 19c internal/24mm external rims since they seem to size a bit skinny by most people's account except this guy:

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... corsa-2016

Corsa and Master are the same bar the colour of the side wall.

Def getting a pair of the Vredesteins as well. I hope I'll be able to report something useful back. I fear that they may feel slow because of the AWS thing. naambezet wrote that the Vredesteins use the same casing as the Corsas, but I wonder if that will help with their infamous rolling resistance they get reported all around. I do fear that Vredestein is using the same compound on all of their Senso tires. We'll see.

I hope I get to report something useful back to you all soon!

Thank you everyone for the feedback and if anyone wants to keep chiming in, please do. We are all reading, I am sure.


Veloflex do run narrow, as others have mentioned. My 25mm measure 24mm on 17mm rim. Keep in mind that Veloflex ETRTO is 17c for safety reasons. You can certainly mount it on 19mm rim but at your own risk. Cotton tires have very soft and flexible sidewall hence the manufacturer is all about safety to avoid tire roll off.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2458
Location: Vienna Austria
possibleweenie wrote:
You may be one of the few I have read that feels the Spec TC are tough. On the other hand, Veloflexes are, in general, really well received.

Since the 25c ones seem to size to about 23c in the Veloflexes, would you think I'd have an issue with a 24mm external, 19 internal, rims?


Unlike most current tires, the Veloflexes are more or less true to size.

On my 18c rims, my 23mm Veloflexes come out to 24mm. I'd expect 25mm ones to be 26 wide on 19c rims.

Turbo Cotton 24s come out to 24.5mm on 15c, so would be almost 26 on 18c rims.
Corsa G+ 25s -> 28mm on 18c rims.

I don't see why Turbo Cottons should be so fragile, I think this is an expectation derived from their price and low rolling resistance, but not from their construction. They are using the same proven casing as the older (?) Vittorias, and a tread similar to Conti rubber that doesn't seem to cut easily. I also haven't heard many reports of problems with the TCs.

I had an old, very sharp carbon clincher rim damage the sidewall on the TCs though, but after 3000+km.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Posts: 75
mpulsiv wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
I think I have decided what I am going to do. I'm going to try a couple of those tires. I'll get a pair of the Veloflexes as soon as anyone can confirm me if I will not have any issue with them fitting into my 19c internal/24mm external rims since they seem to size a bit skinny by most people's account except this guy:

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... corsa-2016

Corsa and Master are the same bar the colour of the side wall.

Def getting a pair of the Vredesteins as well. I hope I'll be able to report something useful back. I fear that they may feel slow because of the AWS thing. naambezet wrote that the Vredesteins use the same casing as the Corsas, but I wonder if that will help with their infamous rolling resistance they get reported all around. I do fear that Vredestein is using the same compound on all of their Senso tires. We'll see.

I hope I get to report something useful back to you all soon!

Thank you everyone for the feedback and if anyone wants to keep chiming in, please do. We are all reading, I am sure.


Veloflex do run narrow, as others have mentioned. My 25mm measure 24mm on 17mm rim. Keep in mind that Veloflex ETRTO is 17c for safety reasons. You can certainly mount it on 19mm rim but at your own risk. Cotton tires have very soft and flexible sidewall hence the manufacturer is all about safety to avoid tire roll off.


Hi there,

Where do you see that 17c info? I am on the Veloflex site now and I can't find a limit. Or are you referring to the ETRTO guidelines published a while ago? These link below shows the image Mavic published:

https://gzmyu4ma9b-flywheel.netdna-ssl. ... -chart.gif

There, it shows a 25c tire suggested to fit into an 18c max rim.

Is this what you mean by 17c max rim internal width? Or is it specific from Veloflex?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Posts: 75
Marin wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
You may be one of the few I have read that feels the Spec TC are tough. On the other hand, Veloflexes are, in general, really well received.

Since the 25c ones seem to size to about 23c in the Veloflexes, would you think I'd have an issue with a 24mm external, 19 internal, rims?


Unlike most current tires, the Veloflexes are more or less true to size.

On my 18c rims, my 23mm Veloflexes come out to 24mm. I'd expect 25mm ones to be 26 wide on 19c rims.

Turbo Cotton 24s come out to 24.5mm on 15c, so would be almost 26 on 18c rims.
Corsa G+ 25s -> 28mm on 18c rims.

I don't see why Turbo Cottons should be so fragile, I think this is an expectation derived from their price and low rolling resistance, but not from their construction. They are using the same proven casing as the older (?) Vittorias, and a tread similar to Conti rubber that doesn't seem to cut easily. I also haven't heard many reports of problems with the TCs.

I had an old, very sharp carbon clincher rim damage the sidewall on the TCs though, but after 3000+km.



Hi there,

Thanks for the info! I would hope that at least the 25mm Veloflexes will run at 25mm on my rims. B

y the price tag of the TCs you mean them being perceived as cheaper than the others? In Europe they are the most expensive ones compared to Vittoria, Veloflex, Schwalbe or Conti. Around 60eur per tire compared to the 32-43eur per tire for the rest.

Unless more expensive means more fragile? Maybe in the US they are cheaper?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Posts: 1009
Location: Surrey UK
The price of Vredestein and Turbo Cotton doesn't encourage to try them.
Twice expensive as Veloflex Corsa and roughly £20 more than Vittoria Corsa G+.
Judging by the weight Senso Superiore should be in the same league as Corsa G+.
I used to ride a lot of Veloflex Corsa, initially 22mm, later on 23mm. On the wider 23mm (external) rims, they were close to 25mm. Very plushy ride, with latex inner, they rode like their Tubs sisters, very nice.
Corsa G+ is not as supple as Veloflex is. Some people here reported the same experience as well.
Another tire, which is very good, or should I say was if you can still find them, Victoria Pave.

Worth to mention, Veloflex does not recommend using their clinchers on carbon rims.

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Cervelo R5 VWD 5637g/12.43lb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Posts: 75
1415chris wrote:
The price of Vredestein and Turbo Cotton doesn't encourage to try them.
Twice expensive as Veloflex Corsa and roughly £20 more than Vittoria Corsa G+.
Judging by the weight Senso Superiore should be in the same league as Corsa G+.
I used to ride a lot of Veloflex Corsa, initially 22mm, later on 23mm. On the wider 23mm (external) rims, they were close to 25mm. Very plushy ride, with latex inner, they rode like their Tubs sisters, very nice.
Corsa G+ is not as supple as Veloflex is. Some people here reported the same experience as well.
Another tire, which is very good, or should I say was if you can still find them, Victoria Pave.

Worth to mention, Veloflex does not recommend using their clinchers on carbon rims.


I found the Vredesteins to cost 70cents of a euro lower than the Corsa G+ at Mantel. They came in at 41.80eur each. The Turbo Cottons on the other hand, I can't find them for less than 60eur. I got a pair of Veloflexes for 57eur the pair (28.50eur each.

What was your internal rim width on your external 23mm rims? It's the internal width (between the rim clincher hooks) that matters when it comes to the safety aspect described in the chart above. You could have a 15c internal and a 23mm external rim and it would be perfectly OK. My current rim is 19c internal and 24mm external. I have a single speed wheelset with 17c internal and 20mm external. The numbers of the external width are not linked to the internal width.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Posts: 1009
Location: Surrey UK
In that case I may try these Vreds.

Answering your question, internal rim width is 17.5mm (H+Son Archetype)

_________________
Cervelo S5
Cervelo R5 VWD 5637g/12.43lb
Pronghorn XC SW Race 8284g/18.26lb


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Posts: 75
1415chris wrote:
In that case I may try these Vreds.

Answering your question, internal rim width is 17.5mm (H+Son Archetype)


Yeah. I'd say you are def within the ETRTO guideline safety margin for the Veloflexes. I am assuming that the Vredesteins are going to fall in line in their sizing with the common Vittorias/Schwalbes/Contis. In any case, once I get both pairs in, I'll make an assessment on how they size up before mounting them. If I suspect the Veloflexes won't mount well, I'll return them. I don't have another wheelset to try them on.

Def Vred up. Would be great to read your thoughts on them for the thread.

PS: I also got a batch of 10 latex tubes from Mantel. Buying 10 of them each comes to 9.70eur. Much better than the regular 12eur price I've seen around and within the line of the Vittoria latex pricing of 9.50eur.


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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:09 pm 


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