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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:50 am 
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Posts: 996
possibleweenie wrote:

Hi there,

Where do you see that 17c info? I am on the Veloflex site now and I can't find a limit. Or are you referring to the ETRTO guidelines published a while ago? These link below shows the image Mavic published:

Image

There, it shows a 25c tire suggested to fit into an 18c max rim.

Is this what you mean by 17c max rim internal width? Or is it specific from Veloflex?


ETRTO is on the box. Minimum is 13mm and maximum 17mm (inner rim width). If you mount any non-cotton tire (stiff vulcanized 120-180 TPI), you can safely ignore ETRTO, mostly due to pre-shape of a tire. In other word, you can mount 25mm Conti 4000S II tire on very wide 23mm (inner width) rim and ride it for years! In contrast, cotton tires (supple unvulcanized 280-360 TPI) are not pre-shaped and very soft sidewall hence ETRTO guidelines should not be ignored.

Image

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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:50 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
mpulsiv wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:

Hi there,

Where do you see that 17c info? I am on the Veloflex site now and I can't find a limit. Or are you referring to the ETRTO guidelines published a while ago? These link below shows the image Mavic published:

Image

There, it shows a 25c tire suggested to fit into an 18c max rim.

Is this what you mean by 17c max rim internal width? Or is it specific from Veloflex?


ETRTO is on the box. Minimum is 13mm and maximum 17mm (inner rim width). If you mount any non-cotton tire (stiff vulcanized 120-180 TPI), you can safely ignore ETRTO, mostly due to pre-shape of a tire. In other word, you can mount 25mm Conti 4000S II tire on very wide 23mm (inner width) rim and ride it for years! In contrast, cotton tires (supple unvulcanized 280-360 TPI) are not pre-shaped and very soft sidewall hence ETRTO guidelines should not be ignored.

Image


Thanks for that. Looks like it may still work alright on some wide rims as others in the thread on max rim width are reporting.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
So,

I just got the delivery of the tyres and tubes.

Here are some photos for further info, especially since the Vredesteins are a bit obscure:

Vredestein Superiore avg. weight for 25c: ~231g
Veloflex Master 25 avg. weight: ~206g

Bead to bead measurement, inside to inside of bead

Vredestein Superiore 25c: 6.2cm
Veloflex Master 25: 5.3cm
Schwalbe Pro One 25c: 6.2cm

If you look at one of the photos, though, you'll see that although the Veloflex is a thinner tyre overall, it has a slightly wider tread...Maybe Veloflex thought that 25mm meant a slightly larger tread and a tiny little bit more of body compared to 23mm? I mean, that's a 9mm difference between the "mainstream" (if we can call it that way) 25mm tyres and the Veloflex...?

Mounted the Veloflex today. They went in by hand only. Not easy, but not overly hard either. If you do the "take the slack off opposite from the valve first" technique, they do in. Maybe my rims are a bit smaller than usual.

I'll save my comments and check back with you after I've done a good amount of riding on them so as to get familiar with the feel so I can then mound the Vreds and do a comparison. Quick impression on 40km: different feedback than Pro Ones (as expected), silent, feel a bit slower, measured straight of the bat at 90psi at 25.2mm. Best config I got so far is 75 front and 85 rear.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm
Posts: 7
Any imput about the Vredestein Senso Superiore, what is the size on the 19c internal rims and how does it feel, compared with the Veloflex and the Pro One? I'm quite interested in the Vredestein and there is almost no info around regarding them.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
nachetetm wrote:
Any imput about the Vredestein Senso Superiore, what is the size on the 19c internal rims and how does it feel, compared with the Veloflex and the Pro One? I'm quite interested in the Vredestein and there is almost no info around regarding them.


Unfortunately, due to work and other life commitments, my time with the tyres has not been as extended as I wish it would have been. Hence the lack of updates.

However, if you wish for a "so far" impressions after only a few hundred KM with all three of these I can say:

1) Speed feels about the same in between all three. Really.
2) Comfort seems about same between the Pro Ones and the Vredesteins
3) The Veloflex comfort is less. I can definitely tell you my arse feels this very clearly. It doesn't matter what PSI I run them at, volume is volume and the larger tyres have it. However, running on smooth tarmac, the Veloflex and the other two feel somewhat close to each other. However, for comfort, I'd go with anything that is true 25c.

This has lead me to believe that the difference among tyres in the "race" category are rather minor in terms of speed and feel. Thinking of getting some Power Comps for next summer as soon as I find them on sale.

On convenience, tubeless is the way to go.

On another note...the biggest difference between the two cotton tyres and the Pro Ones is noise. The Veloflex/Vredesteins are nearly silent compared to the hollow sounding Pro Ones.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2455
Location: Vienna Austria
possibleweenie, thank you for your posts - very good info that's hard to find otherwise.

Regarding speed, may I suggest you do a low-speed rolldown test? I do one in a parking garage, starting on a small ramp, and then I just observe how far I can roll on a set course.

Low speed takes aerodynamics out of the equation (repeatably the same distance on hoods & drops), and I can find clear differences between tires. My guess is you'll find that you roll a bit further on Vredesteins. If you do, I'll order a set too :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm
Posts: 7
possibleweenie wrote:
nachetetm wrote:
Any imput about the Vredestein Senso Superiore, what is the size on the 19c internal rims and how does it feel, compared with the Veloflex and the Pro One? I'm quite interested in the Vredestein and there is almost no info around regarding them.


Unfortunately, due to work and other life commitments, my time with the tyres has not been as extended as I wish it would have been. Hence the lack of updates.

However, if you wish for a "so far" impressions after only a few hundred KM with all three of these I can say:

1) Speed feels about the same in between all three. Really.
2) Comfort seems about same between the Pro Ones and the Vredesteins
3) The Veloflex comfort is less. I can definitely tell you my arse feels this very clearly. It doesn't matter what PSI I run them at, volume is volume and the larger tyres have it. However, running on smooth tarmac, the Veloflex and the other two feel somewhat close to each other. However, for comfort, I'd go with anything that is true 25c.

This has lead me to believe that the difference among tyres in the "race" category are rather minor in terms of speed and feel. Thinking of getting some Power Comps for next summer as soon as I find them on sale.

On convenience, tubeless is the way to go.

On another note...the biggest difference between the two cotton tyres and the Pro Ones is noise. The Veloflex/Vredesteins are nearly silent compared to the hollow sounding Pro Ones.

Hope this helps.
Thank you for the input. It is really helpful and seems that the Vredesteins are worth a try. I'm going to upgrade soon to 19 or 20c inner width rims and I'm afraid my current challenge paris-roubaix will grow too much to fit comfortably in my fork (they are already 30mm width on 17c rims). I will need a 25 or 28 open tubular that doesn't grow over 30mm and the Vredesteins look good and are reasonably affordable on some online stores. Do you have any measurement about their real width? Thanks!!

Enviado desde mi XT1068 mediante Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
Marin wrote:
possibleweenie, thank you for your posts - very good info that's hard to find otherwise.

Regarding speed, may I suggest you do a low-speed rolldown test? I do one in a parking garage, starting on a small ramp, and then I just observe how far I can roll on a set course.

Low speed takes aerodynamics out of the equation (repeatably the same distance on hoods & drops), and I can find clear differences between tires. My guess is you'll find that you roll a bit further on Vredesteins. If you do, I'll order a set too :)


Pleasure.

I wish I had the time to do a test, but I don't right now.
If you are in Europe, Mantel has a great price on the Vreds vs other sellers I would normally go to. Those and the Veloflexes too.

Sorry I can't be of much more help.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 75
nachetetm wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
nachetetm wrote:
Any imput about the Vredestein Senso Superiore, what is the size on the 19c internal rims and how does it feel, compared with the Veloflex and the Pro One? I'm quite interested in the Vredestein and there is almost no info around regarding them.


Unfortunately, due to work and other life commitments, my time with the tyres has not been as extended as I wish it would have been. Hence the lack of updates.

However, if you wish for a "so far" impressions after only a few hundred KM with all three of these I can say:

1) Speed feels about the same in between all three. Really.
2) Comfort seems about same between the Pro Ones and the Vredesteins
3) The Veloflex comfort is less. I can definitely tell you my arse feels this very clearly. It doesn't matter what PSI I run them at, volume is volume and the larger tyres have it. However, running on smooth tarmac, the Veloflex and the other two feel somewhat close to each other. However, for comfort, I'd go with anything that is true 25c.

This has lead me to believe that the difference among tyres in the "race" category are rather minor in terms of speed and feel. Thinking of getting some Power Comps for next summer as soon as I find them on sale.

On convenience, tubeless is the way to go.

On another note...the biggest difference between the two cotton tyres and the Pro Ones is noise. The Veloflex/Vredesteins are nearly silent compared to the hollow sounding Pro Ones.

Hope this helps.
Thank you for the input. It is really helpful and seems that the Vredesteins are worth a try. I'm going to upgrade soon to 19 or 20c inner width rims and I'm afraid my current challenge paris-roubaix will grow too much to fit comfortably in my fork (they are already 30mm width on 17c rims). I will need a 25 or 28 open tubular that doesn't grow over 30mm and the Vredesteins look good and are reasonably affordable on some online stores. Do you have any measurement about their real width? Thanks!!

Enviado desde mi XT1068 mediante Tapatalk


I got 19c rim and the measurements of the three tyres in discussion here are:

Pro One 25s: 28mm @ 85psi
Vreds 25s: 27.5mm @ 90psi
Veloflex 25s: 25mm @ 90psi


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