"fat tyre craziness"

[tarmackev]

No data for me between 25 and 28.
The same hilly 30 mile route ridden back to back on the sand bike, same wheels, different tyre widths.
I was consistently around 1mph slower for the ride on 28's. Tried them at 80-100psi (I'm 80kg).
It felt the faster I went the more drag there was, at slower speeds it was less noticeable.
On pan flat gravel trails the 28's (measure roughly 30) are insane.
Last week alone I got 17 strava KOM's on segments covered by 1500 riders, I'm usually up there but not that consistent, I put it down to my advantage with the slick 28mm Schwalbe ones.


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[tarmackev]

Here's the weapon of choice with 28's


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[Beaver]

You can find a lot to read about that topic in my signature.

A wide rim with a thin tire and less pressure will improve performance, a wide tire on a thin rim at high pressure will worsen it. With a 21C rim which is at least 28mm wide you have the choice: 23mm tire for best aerodynamics and speed, 25mm tire for a great compromise of comfort and speed, 28mm tire for most comfort and maybe a bit dirt road use, as the tire will be more than 30mm wide.

[mpulsiv]

No data for me between 25 and 28.
The same hilly 30 mile route ridden back to back on the sand bike, same wheels, different tyre widths.
I was consistently around 1mph slower for the ride on 28's. Tried them at 80-100psi (I'm 80kg).
It felt the faster I went the more drag there was, at slower speeds it was less noticeable.
On pan flat gravel trails the 28's (measure roughly 30) are insane.
Last week alone I got 17 strava KOM's on segments covered by 1500 riders, I'm usually up there but not that consistent, I put it down to my advantage with the slick 28mm Schwalbe ones.


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You were 1 mph slower because your tire was ~3mm wider? Should we go back to the whiteboard and explain to all that with such major speed advantage, deep dish carbon wheels are worthless?! Don't waste thousands of dollars/euros on wheels, just ride narrow tires. Now, that's real craziness here.

Whoa, 80-100 psi with 28mm tires? Even if you weigh 245lbs/110kg, 80-100 psi is way over inflated for so much volume in the tire. My 28mm are hard at 60 psi and I weight 160 lbs/72kg

[Ltyarbro42]

Also, unless the tires are the exact same as your 25s (GP4000 in 25 and GP4000 in 28) then there is no comparison at all.

[nachetetm]

I don't understand the hatress for wider tires. Most of the people that I know don't try to go faster but to enjoy the ride. A wider tire is undeniably more comfortable and permits to explore broken tarmac or unpaved roads, which can be fun. I don't care to arrive two minutes later after four hours riding, but I definitely rate highly to arrive less beated. My bike has clearance for 30c front and 32c back and I have full intention to take advantadge of that (running Challenge Paris-Roubaix at the moment, 29.5 front and 29.7 rear). At the same time, I couldn't care less about aero and my bike is a "lardy" steel without a single piece of carbon (9kgs with pedals) but I enjoy every single km I do with it and I would not change it for anything that makes me faster but more uncomfortable.

[mpulsiv]

I don't understand the hatress for wider tires. Most of the people that I know don't try to go faster but to enjoy the ride. A wider tire is undeniably more comfortable and permits to explore broken tarmac or unpaved roads, which can be fun. I don't care to arrive two minutes later after four hours riding, but I definitely rate highly to arrive less beated. My bike has clearance for 30c front and 32c back and I have full intention to take advantadge of that (running Challenge Paris-Roubaix at the moment, 29.5 front and 29.7 rear). At the same time, I couldn't care less about aero and my bike is a "lardy" steel without a single piece of carbon (9kgs with pedals) but I enjoy every single km I do with it and I would not change it for anything that makes me faster but more uncomfortable.

Kudos on your first post. Well said. You are a prime example of a great contributor! I fully support wide tires and encourage others to do the same for a reason. Unfortunately, many riders mimic Pro's to ride faster and to look faster with deep carbon wheels. They dwell over wind tunnel data, buy fastest bikes and mount narrow tires. This is all just for group rides and/or solo training rides. It still boggles my mind as why someone spend so much money and don't even race their bikes. Stop blaming everything and focus on your fitness instead. If you want to ride faster, then challenge yourself, race bikes to keep this sport alive! Don't blame 3-5mm wider tire that slowing you down.

[Calnago]

I don't race bikes. I don't race cars. I don't have a Porsche, but I could appreciate driving one. On the other hand, I can ride the Porsche like equivalent in a bicycle. It's fun. I like the handling. I've ridden quality tires in 22mm, 23mm, 24mm, 25mm, 27mm, 28mm (now in light touring bike territory), and 32mm (fully loaded touring bike territory). My preference on a nice road bike is definitely the 24mm-25mm range. Bigger than that and the handling and feel goes from Porsche like, to truck like. That's my opinion, albeit a bit exaggerated but you get the drift I'm sure. No one has to agree. It's got nothing to do with me wanting to be faster. And I don't give a rats ass about aero. I do think the wide tire craze is in fact a bit crazy and marketing driven, especially after giving the 27mm Veloflex Vlanderens a good go. If the roads are good, 25mm is the max I want on my road bike. If I'm mixing it up with some gravel or really bad roads, then sure... the 27mm Vlanderens are nice. But I just don't ride those conditions enough to make me even want to keep them on, and I will likely be putting 25's back on, maybe even 24's as I've heard good things about the Specialized Turbo Cotton tubulars.

[nachetetm]

I don't race bikes. I don't race cars. I don't have a Porsche, but I could appreciate driving one. On the other hand, I can ride the Porsche like equivalent in a bicycle. It's fun. I like the handling. I've ridden quality tires in 22mm, 23mm, 24mm, 25mm, 27mm, 28mm (now in light touring bike territory), and 32mm (fully loaded touring bike territory). My preference on a nice road bike is definitely the 24mm-25mm range. Bigger than that and the handling and feel goes from Porsche like, to truck like. That's my opinion, albeit a bit exaggerated but you get the drift I'm sure. No one has to agree. It's got nothing to do with me wanting to be faster. And I don't give a rats ass about aero. I do think the wide tire craze is in fact a bit crazy and marketing driven, especially after giving the 27mm Veloflex Vlanderens a good go. If the roads are good, 25mm is the max I want on my road bike. If I'm mixing it up with some gravel or really bad roads, then sure... the 27mm Vlanderens are nice. But I just don't ride those conditions enough to make me even want to keep them on, and I will likely be putting 25's back on, maybe even 24's as I've heard good things about the Specialized Turbo Cotton tubulars.

I totally understand your point and the comparison with cars but I think with bikes it is a bit easier. Wider clearance just gives you the option to choose, and nothing stops you to use 23c tires instead of 28c. You can use the thin ones and sharp the handling, use the wide ones to improve the comfort or a middle one as the best compromise. But this compromise may be different for each person depending on many things like body weight, road conditions, riding speed etc... What i mean is that while for one person 25c are perfect for its riding, others may prefer 23c or 28c, and the beauty of having wider clearance is that can fit everyone's preference

[tarmackev]

No data for me between 25 and 28.
The same hilly 30 mile route ridden back to back on the sand bike, same wheels, different tyre widths.
I was consistently around 1mph slower for the ride on 28's. Tried them at 80-100psi (I'm 80kg).
It felt the faster I went the more drag there was, at slower speeds it was less noticeable.
On pan flat gravel trails the 28's (measure roughly 30) are insane.
Last week alone I got 17 strava KOM's on segments covered by 1500 riders, I'm usually up there but not that consistent, I put it down to my advantage with the slick 28mm Schwalbe ones.


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You were 1 mph slower because your tire was ~3mm wider? Should we go back to the whiteboard and explain to all that with such major speed advantage, deep dish carbon wheels are worthless?! Don't waste thousands of dollars/euros on wheels, just ride narrow tires. Now, that's real craziness here.

Whoa, 80-100 psi with 28mm tires? Even if you weigh 245lbs/110kg, 80-100 psi is way over inflated for so much volume in the tire. My 28mm are hard at 60 psi and I weight 160 lbs/72kg

I have no exact science to back it up, I've ridden the 28's as low as 30psi on trails.
Road surfaces are good around here, at sub 80psi the tyres feel draggy and soft. The rims are 22mm wide tubeless.
I'm not sure why the 1mph difference but it's real.
Drag, weight, rolling resistance.
I will state again that the 28's feel noticeably slower, and the speeds and times I'm getting agree.

I did use the same Schwalbe one, 25mm and 28mm.
The 28mm measures as good as 30mm and the 25 just under 27mm.
So the real world 30mm (listed 28mm) tyres feel slower.
As I previously said on dry, flat hard pack gravel trails they're insane, 60psi being the sweet spot.

Looking back my fastest ever rides were done on 21mm Carbon tubs that measured 17mm wide.

Currently 25mm-27mm seems optimum for the roads I ride and the guys I ride with. Mostly 2nd Cat road racers on smooth fast chaingangs at consistent speeds.
No way I'd try the 30mm Schwalbe ones.


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[micky]

Another subject which could be an interesting topic turning into "vegan vs meat war".

[WinterRider]

Another subject which could be an interesting topic turning into "vegan vs meat war".

I guess ... if your a know-it-all know nothing always sniping like a crotchety bore ... that topic would suit.

[romalor]

for me for 28 mm nominal wideness tires you have to have the right rim .

only rim I can think of and witch is designed for aero and right support with wide tires 28 30 mm labelled are
the ENVE A.R 4.5
super wide inside and outside

I've tried GP4000S2 28 mm on venn 35 TCD rims ( 19 mm internal 27 external width )
They measured 30 mm with a caliper
It was fun on rough roads and cycles paths but the tire was wider than the rim
And you could feel it the faster you'd go and if there was side wind.

So it would use it again but in fall and winter for training

[mpulsiv]

for me for 28 mm nominal wideness tires you have to have the right rim .

only rim I can think of and witch is designed for aero and right support with wide tires 28 30 mm labelled are
the ENVE A.R 4.5
super wide inside and outside

I've tried GP4000S2 28 mm on venn 35 TCD rims ( 19 mm internal 27 external width )
They measured 30 mm with a caliper
It was fun on rough roads and cycles paths but the tire was wider than the rim
And you could feel it the faster you'd go and if there was side wind.

So it would use it again but in fall and winter for training

Yes, ENVE SES 4.5 AR is the widest wheelset. However, 27-30mm is wide enough.

31mm wide http://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar
29.4mm wide http://www.specialized.com/us/en/equipm ... ear/118675
29mm wide https://reynoldscycling.com/wheels/ATR_V2
28mm wide http://www.notubes.com/avion-pro-wheelset
27mm wide http://www.noxcomposites.com/falkor36d
27mm wide http://www.boydcycling.com/shop/road-ri ... ront-wheel
27mm wide http://www.huntbikewheels.com/collectio ... er-nov-wk3
27mm wide http://www.venn-cycling.com/index.php/w ... 5tccwheels

[alcatraz]

I don't see many mention total riding weight?

Are 60kg riders really fast on 28-30mm tires (pavement)?

I'm 62kg and running 23s on wide rims. They measure 25mm and I couldn't wish for going wider really. I guess if I was going on really bad roads I could save a few seconds but I could run my "25s" at a bit lower pressure and be fast, although pray I don't pinch them.

I get the feeling there is a heavier riding community out there that are realizing that they go faster running tires allowing them similar shaped contact patches as the lightweight riders have been enjoying for a long time on 23s. I guess the frame manufacturers have only recently enabled heavier riders to use the tire widths that they needed in the first place.

A total riding weight 100kg rider will at the same pressure create a 50% larger contact patch than a 67kg riding weight rider. The difference between 25 and 23... or 28 and 25 is not great enough to make up for this 50%. Hence the need for much wider tires. But simply going "wider is faster" sounds lazy to me.

A frame that has a weight limit of 120kg and can only take 24mm tires is of a poor design IMO.

Am I way off in my theory here?

/a