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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Posts: 654
gewichtweenie wrote:
i have campagnolo and shimano 10sp and 11sp.

for both generations, prefer ergonomics of campagnolo. durability and adjustability and all that mess is about the same for me.


I have Shimano 10 speed mechanical and Shimano 10 speed electronic. And Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed mechanical. Shimano Di2 is the best lever shape. But all are good, close to great. For durability and adjusting, all are basically perfect from 9 speed onwards. I do maybe one mechanical fix per year on all my bikes. And usually its a bent derailleur hanger that is causing shifting issues. So you can't blame the group for that. All bikes are super reliable today. Flat tires, new tires are a different fixing category.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Location: Natovi Landing
Prefer ergonomics of Campag ... actually stripped a bike of record a couple of years back and put DA 9001 or whatever it was on it and wanted to like it ... was lining up a full scale move to DA, but just really didn't like the shifter ergonomics and the shifting wasn't actually as sweet as I remembered from the old external cables 8 and 9 speed Ultegra and DA ... those were the best shifting mechanical groups of all time tbh. Put campag back on ... expensive mistake

But Ultegra is great VFM and some parts, like the calipers, on Shimano are really better designed than Campag

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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:48 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:17 am 
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Posts: 1417
Location: Back in the saddle...
After 10 years on Campagnolo (Super Record/Record/Chorus), I just built up a new bike with DA 9100 mechanical. Just kind of thought Campy was adrift, not really making any headway or improvements, and figured I would try the other side. After 7 days (400mi/644km), here's my opinion: "Half a dozen in one hand, six in the other."

I could go either way. There are pluses/minuses to both. For the record, I'm running DA 9100 Front & Rear Derailleurs, DA 9100 Brakes and Shifters, a Rotor crankset with a P2M and Praxis chainrings, and using a Chorus cassette since all my wheels are still mounted to Campy splined hubs.

I thought the ergonomics of the Campy shifters was supreme, but I'm getting used to the Shimano and think they may actually give me an additional hand position. The front shifting on the DA is so fast, it's pretty ridiculous. In fact, I can't imagine why you would need electronic. Seriously, it shifts that quick and sure. The rear shifting is really light, as well, and while I frankly prefer the "clunk" of Campagnolo, it is much easier to shift under stress on the DA.

The braking is one area where I give Campy the nod for sure. While Shimano is the standard for pure stopping power, at 64-65 kg I don't need all that raw power. I need modulation, and this is where Campy excels. With the Shimano, I feel as if every time I touch the levers it's a hair's breadth from locking the wheels. Also, I don't think I will ever enjoy the feeling of the levers "folding" as I pull on the brakes. I rode Shimano years ago, and didn't care for this back then, and I don't care for it now.

Otherwise, as I said, they are both good, and truthfully I could go either way. I think if I was going to design a perfect setup it would be a mix of both gruppos. In fact, since we are at a juncture where it's pretty easy to mix and match, there is no reason not to!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Posts: 123
I just got myself a Bianchi XR3 and it comes with the new Ultegra 8000.
I still haven't ridden it, debating whether to switch it out for Chorus. The LBS said they would do the swap but at extra cost.

I should never have read too much forums haha.

I know I would be totally fine with the new R8000 but it might be in the back of my mind....what if I had got Chorus, it would look so different.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Posts: 1405
Is the Morgan Blue you are talking about the "waterproof grease"? I don't think you want grease in a press fit application. Grease will give the cups an opportunity to move within the frame. This stuff?

http://www.wiggle.com/morgan-blue-aquap ... 200ml-tub/

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:12 pm
Posts: 136
main usability differences for me are:

*shimano 6800 lever throw too long

*when shifting rings on campagnolo, i can perform one synchronized motion with both hands and instantly maintain similar gear-ratio. on shimano mech, dropping to small ring for example, its one click on left hand and then click-click-click with right hand. its never as rapid and seamless as campag mech.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:40 am
Posts: 46
In the past year i have ridden with SRAM Etrap, Campagnolo super record EPS, Shimano Dura ace DI2 9050 and now with Shimano Dura Ace DI2 9150.
My opinion is:
- Etap:
- Had the best shifting method. It is easy, simple and never had a wrong shift
- A little bit slower then EPS and DI2 but nothing why you not would buy Etap for
- The groupset was noisier then EPS and the DI2 9050. On the big ring is equal to the new DI2 9150
- Had problems with the battery holders that broken on me

- Super record EPS
- Best ergonomics of all the groupset
- Best looking groupset
- A lot of customization with the app. The app is sometimes buggy
- Had a lot of chaindrop when i want to go from 39 to 53 even with the FD stiffener
- Sometimes the bottoms of the shifter would not respond

- Dura Ace DI 2 9050 and 9150
- Best shifting performance
- I like the looks of the new 9150 groupset but is not the carbon look of the super record
- Shifters of the new 9150 groupset are better then the 9050 groupset
- Best Rim brakes and the direct mount ones are even better
- The new 9150 is louder then the 9050 in the big ring (53).
- Like with EPS you can customize a lot
- A lot of possibilities to hide the junction box. (with my new BMC is in the down tube, you can put in the handlebar etc...)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
the race settings/hard shifting are more likely to drop a chain so maybe a slower shift setting. that how I have set my EPS up

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:32 pm 
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joeyb1000 wrote:
My vote is Chorus over Ult8000. I would have said it's a tie, but Campy levers are more comfortable.


Depends on the hands I guess. I want to love my Campy Record but it beats the crap out of my hands compared to my Sram or Shimano equipped bikes. I am also not a fan of having to take my palm off the hood to hit the thumb button. That is just not a good thing no matter how you look at it. Of course this criticism is moot for EPS.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
Jeez, what has happened to the world, Campag vs Shimano now produces a reasoned debate?

Suppose the heat is now to be found in rim vs disc, lol.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Posts: 93
I used to be a Shimano guy for years, until the day I tried out a bike with Campy. Promptly sold all my DA parts and wheels and made the switch. Never looked back. I occasionally test bikes with newer Shimano and SRAM, just so I know how it feels and what's going on, but Campy is still on top for me. I must admit though, eTap is quite amazing. I like that much better than mechanical SRAM, but EPS still tops that, for me. You should try them all somehow so you know.

I agree with someone above that it comes down to hood ergonomics - how they feel in your hands. Very important since you will be there maybe 40-50%+ of your rides. Also important is how the shifting is accomplished. For me, the thumb levers on Campy are amazing. I know some people who like Campy but the thumb shifters just aren't for them. This is something you really need to try before blindly going to Campy.

Also, I agree with someone else above that Chorus >>> Ultegra. In that matchup, Chorus wins. I would choose Chorus over DA also. Chorus is a thing to behold, even if Record and SR improve to some degree.

Finally, keep in mind that Campy is the least available at most shops. Usually you'll have to order something if you need it fixed. Most shops regularly stock most anything Shimano and SRAM, however. Also, Campy has the highest cost - both to get and to maintain (although on my Record I just get Chorus cassettes, except for the occasional race).


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Location: NorthEU
Reading this, i wonder if Rotor UNO and/ or FSA WE will ever have a chance?

A pity living in a small town, Shimano and Sram rules.
Even with Campa, it's difficult overhere...
Wouldn't even dare to think of what to do if FSA WE or Rotor UNO would be on a bike and hassle to a degree i couldn't solve it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:16 pm
Posts: 204
angrylegs wrote:
...

I agree with someone above that it comes down to hood ergonomics - how they feel in your hands. Very important since you will be there maybe 40-50%+ of your rides. Also important is how the shifting is accomplished. For me, the thumb levers on Campy are amazing. I know some people who like Campy but the thumb shifters just aren't for them. This is something you really need to try before blindly going to Campy.

...

Finally, keep in mind that Campy is the least available at most shops. Usually you'll have to order something if you need it fixed. Most shops regularly stock most anything Shimano and SRAM, however. Also, Campy has the highest cost - both to get and to maintain (although on my Record I just get Chorus cassettes, except for the occasional race).


To the last point, I'm still running a 10s Campy drivetrain. I run a Veloce cassette and KMC chain. It shifts fine, is about as durable as Centaur, and the total cost is on par with Shimano 10s Ultegra or 105. And the Veloce cassette doesn't gouge an aluminum freehub body despite being a loose cog cassette. Clear advantage to Campy's freehub spline design (deeper splines). Either way, you're right that many of Campy's consumables are pricier than Shimano's, but IMO, you don't need to use the top-level consumables on either groupset, and I don't think most people will really see a benefit. And I also like the overall modulation of Campy's brakes. I don't need to feel a bunch of power immediately.

OK, all that said, I am also likely to switch to Shimano. I've got small hands, and the lack of adjustability on that score is not pleasing to me. When I started cycling, Shimano was on its 9s groups, and those levers were pretty big, and the lever throws were also big. Campy levers were a big improvement for me. Plus Campy's durability was better than Shimano's.

Now, though, Shimano has adjustable levers, and they cant outwards. Both those features would help me. Campy does neither. Right now, I'm inclined to switch on that score, plus the overall availability of parts and spares. I'm convinced that Campy and Shimano are very close in quality and durability, and therefore it's really down to personal preference between the two.


Last edited by weiwentg on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Posts: 467
Location: Cantabria
I think we're pretty hard on Campagnolo when we say "they're not keeping up with the latest a developments". Many of the developments Shimano is doing in the last years are to shovel down our throat concepts that leave competition out of the game but in reality have no real benefit when using the bike.

Sometimes is actually the opposite. One good example is the DM rear derailleur. It is extreme difficult to remove the rear wheel on the bike I have R9150 installed. They claim it should be easier and it is exactly the opposite? Why change a standard that's been around for 65 years of not to make the industry move towards a standard that forces Shimano's competition to invest in new tooling and look like they are late to the game?

They've tried this too often in the past, the Dual Controls for MTB where just hilarious and thank god they couldn't pull that one off, but if they did it meant getting rid of all the competitors making brakes.

Campagnolo's approach is much more weighted and their developments usually add value to the final user.

True that it took them a while to develop disc brakes... Actually in Europe nobody was asking for them. I live in Sweden, lake Iseo in Italy and Cantabria. In Sweden I couldn't care less about the brakes, so flat that I think I could actually get rid of them entirely. In lake Iseo (some 150 km from the Stelvio pass) the slopes are so steep that the curve the space-time. Yet I'm fine with rim brakes and so is every other rider I know. In Cantabria it is steep and rainy. It could be the only place I think discs can be actually worthy the hassle, but still it's possible to ride rim brakes and be the fastest bloke around (ask Oscar Freire and "Bison" Cobo). If the industry so dictates we will all move to discs and Campagnolo's solution is, once more, the one that ticks more boxes for me. Couldn't care less how much it took them
to develop, fact is they got it right.

Having said this I like to have all the top tiers in my stable and I like them all. E-Tap is downright brilliant, pity some materials are so lousy. Dura Ace would be fine without that silly RD.

Still the bikes that get used the most are those with EPS SR and Record. They have that little edge over the rest for me.




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:38 am
Posts: 8
weiwentg wrote:
angrylegs wrote:
... And the Veloce cassette doesn't gouge an aluminum freehub body despite being a loose cog cassette. Clear advantage to Campy's freehub spline design (deeper splines)...

Exactly what I said to an LBS manager who was telling me that after riding various Campag setups for 10 years he has now decided they're crap - he does have a reputation for this and praising whatever he is currently selling. He answered yes aftermarket splines gouge, Shimano dont, and their bearings are better, Campag are smaller and inferior.

I also asked him about 6800 crankarms snapping, never seen it and never heard of it was the reply.

FWIW I happily have DA9000 on one bike and good experiences of previous Ultegra 6600 and DA7700, 9 speed Record aand Veloce on other bikes. I think we are spoiled by the quality of many different groupsets and I'm in the camp that says choose the hoods you like or the lustre of the brand you want on your bike.


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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:53 pm 


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