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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:49 am 
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Okay here is the issue: Bike 2017 Cervelo R5 mechanical, was told Campy was 2017 but do not know how to confirm because I read early 11spd had issues with shifter but running changes were made, Campy SR with 11-23 cassette crank 53-39. Total mileage on bike is 1500 miles. Had bike professionally built and it shifted fine till I changed to a new chain. I changed my chain so I could rotate between clean chains. I like to clean my chains off the bike thoroughly. After I installed new Campy chain it would not shift right. Shifting from small to big sprocket only on the 4 and 5th from the top it would not shift up but rattle in those gears until I just touched shifter lever then chain would move up and run silent. I thought it was because of new chain so I tensioned wire at derailleur by turning CCW like Campy directions says to. It shifted fine going up but now would not go down on the same sprockets just rattle till I either shifted past then back up to that cog. Heres what really doesn't make sense if you continuously shift up and down after it gets stuck on cog it seems to work fine then ride it will do it again. So, heres what I tried: straightened hanger which was off now it is about 1/2mm difference all the way around rim reassembled checked worked fine then after a few minutes it started doing it again. Checked hanger off maybe 3-5 mm difference vertical and horizontal. Restraightened assembled shifted fine then starts to do it again. I know R5 hangers are noodles but are rear derailleurs this temperamental? Readjusted tension so that chain is dead in the middle of links when leaving upper jockey wheel and hitting cassette. When chain does not drop from 4-5 sprocket from the top derailleur is in correct position because I can not move it so cable is not stuck after turning pedals a few turns chain will catch lower sprocket and drop and is completed centered and noise fee. I greased pivots on derailleur thinking they were not moving freely and this was causing issue same problem. I was wondering if the shifter could be the cause because issue is sporactic like if you don't shift it happens keep shifting it works fine almost like something loosens or frees up. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also just to make sure I understand how derailleur should work cable tension brings chain up and derailleur spring returns chain down. If tension is increased to much chain would not drop because it over comes spring tension but proper tension in cable would smooth out downshifts from controlling spring return rate, is this correct?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:08 am 
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"Early" 11-speed shifter means 2009 so I think you are OK there.

A brand new chain will be slightly stiffer or less flexible for a short time, than a used one. There is also the issue of how experienced you are with joining Campy chains?

After you had the minor problem with shifting it's possible you made things worse. It's also possible that it's a poor cable install in the first place.

All I can suggest is that you go back to basics, carefully read the user manual, and start again with the RD setup.

A second bit of advice would be to replace the hanger with a Wheels Manufacturing equivalent soon, before what you have falls apart. (it's not pretty).

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Last edited by bikerjulio on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:08 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:11 am 
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When you changed chains, did you happen to remove and clean the cassette cogs? While the top 3 are fixed and 4-5-6 fixed (thus problems between 3rd and 4th are more likely versus between 4th and 5th) I figure it's worth an ask........as I was thinking of the spacers at the 3 cog clusters possibly being reversed. Any chance you meant to say that shifting was impaired going to the larger when coming from EITHER the 4th AND the 5th from top??


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:10 am 
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your mech hanger may not be as straight as you think. It may also have some twist in it. this is impossible to remove.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:32 am 
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New after market hanger stiffens up Campag shifting on Cervelo. Very short seat stays makes shifting very sensitive, particularly with Campag.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:57 am 
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Posts: 107
Im having similar issues with 2016 SR. I never had any issues with the pre 2015 Campag. I'm on the verge of saying goodbye to Campagnolo and I never thought Id even think that. The front shifting is awful too and requires huge amounts of cable tension. You fix one problem and it starts another. This is on a Colnago C60. Ive fitted It to other bikes too and there has always been issues.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:38 pm 
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tommasini wrote:
When you changed chains, did you happen to remove and clean the cassette cogs? While the top 3 are fixed and 4-5-6 fixed (thus problems between 3rd and 4th are more likely versus between 4th and 5th) I figure it's worth an ask........as I was thinking of the spacers at the 3 cog clusters possibly being reversed. Any chance you meant to say that shifting was impaired going to the larger when coming from EITHER the 4th AND the 5th from top??


Did not remove cassette when replacing chain. Impaired would describe it but chain would not shift till cable adjustment then chain would struggle to shift down from 4 to 5 cog.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:41 pm 
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I will order a wheels manufacturing hanger and replace, also I will try to loosen chain up where I connected with pin and completely start over setting RD up.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:02 pm 
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did you use a KMC missing link to join chain? or use Campy chain tool?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:13 pm 
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kode54 wrote:
did you use a KMC missing link to join chain? or use Campy chain tool?

Campy pin with Campy tool.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Did you peen the link pin enough


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:29 pm 
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@colnagoc59: It's not comepletely clear to me if you you're using a Campy chain properly connected with a pin that gets peened, hence not removeable, or if you're using a quick link in the system allowing you to remove the chain for "thorough cleaning" like you wanted. In any case, I don't think that's the issue, although it would be good to see a pic of your chain length when it is in the small ring up front and the smallest cog at the back showing the gap between the upper pulley cage and the lower pulley... I find that a chain on the longer side is better than a chain on the shorter side of things...
Image

And yes, you should toss that piece of cheese of a derailleur hanger, especially since it's been bent around a few times already and get a Wheels Manufacturing replacement asap regardless of whether this is the ultimate issue or not.

Cervelos of the past had very short chainstays, like 399mm, when campy's min recommendation was 405mm. But I think your Cervelo has 410mm chainstays which should be ok.

It doesn't sound like you're completely familiar with dialing things in, but your questions about which way to tighten or loosen the cable and it's effect do indicate that your understanding of how it works is correct, so that's good. I don't know if you're using bars with internal cable routing or external and what kinds of bends are present. I hope the cable routing doesn't involved over the top and through the top tube routing like Cervelos of the past. That is such an awkward cable routing and just makes dialing in a mechanical system even more difficult. I can't stress enough how important clean, smooth cable runs with as few and gradual bends as possible is for a perfectly functioning mechanical system. With electric it doesn't matter as long as the current flows. I suspect your issue is a combination of friction in the cables and that cheeselike hanger that doesn't seem to stay straight at this point. First step is definitely to get a new hanger, and you seem to be on that.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is if you have the derailleur upper pulley as close to the cassette as possible. You do this by adjusting the "H" screw when the chain is on the smallest ring up front and the largest cog at the back. Some people might call this screw the "B" screw but the new campy derailleurs have two screws, one at the derailleur hanger stop and another at the lower pivot of the derailleur itself (the "H" screw). Ideally, you'd like to get the distance between the upper pulley and teeth of the cassette as close as possible (5-7mm)... note that the distance shown here between the teeth is even less than 5mm, and this is with an 11/23 cassette, the most difficult combo to get this distance right. Even Campy states that with the 11/23 cassette it may not be possible to get it that close and it's normal. But if you can it's better...
Image

And a little more of the pic above to put things in context as to what you're looking at....
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:42 pm 
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If you're going to start over with the RD install, in the new documentation it explains how the post 2015 components are marked so you can tell them from older stuff. On my Record it's an "A" on the back of the front mech, somewhere on the rear mech too, but I forget where. I can't remember if it's "A" on Super Record or not but I'm sure it says in the manual.


You're installing the chain with the campy pin and then uninstalling to swap out with clean chain? I only ask because I'd never considered breaking any of the ones I've used unless it had served it's time. I'd need to review the guidance on the chains to know if that is a very good idea or not. I'd expect it to work fine with a quick link but I prefer to just wipe, lube, wipe the chain in place.

You can check and see easy enough if your shifter is pulling/releasing cable easy enough. Just pinch the cable between your fingers and double check that it is pulling or releasing cable as appropriate with each input.

Any change to the cables, cable housing, routing, kinks coming out of or going into the frame? You seem very interested in keeping your chain clean, do you wash your bike often? Maybe the cables/housing need to be lubed possibly along with other components.

Any chance the cassette was put back on with a spacer out of place, or swapped with another throwing the spacing off? (I've done that, including omitting one entirely, I'm sad to admit)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:41 am 
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Zakalwe wrote:
Did you peen the link pin enough


Yes, I peen link with Campy made chain tool. Do not use a quick link.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 am 
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kytyree wrote:
If you're going to start over with the RD install, in the new documentation it explains how the post 2015 components are marked so you can tell them from older stuff. On my Record it's an "A" on the back of the front mech, somewhere on the rear mech too, but I forget where. I can't remember if it's "A" on Super Record or not but I'm sure it says in the manual.


You're installing the chain with the campy pin and then uninstalling to swap out with clean chain? I only ask because I'd never considered breaking any of the ones I've used unless it had served it's time. I'd need to review the guidance on the chains to know if that is a very good idea or not. I'd expect it to work fine with a quick link but I prefer to just wipe, lube, wipe the chain in place.

You can check and see easy enough if your shifter is pulling/releasing cable easy enough. Just pinch the cable between your fingers and double check that it is pulling or releasing cable as appropriate with each input.

Any change to the cables, cable housing, routing, kinks coming out of or going into the frame? You seem very interested in keeping your chain clean, do you wash your bike often? Maybe the cables/housing need to be lubed possibly along with other components.

Any chance the cassette was put back on with a spacer out of place, or swapped with another throwing the spacing off? (I've done that, including omitting one entirely, I'm sad to admit)


Good advice, already verified cassette spacing looks good. Campy manual says chain can be broken two times after initial assembly so I feel its easier to get the chain really clean by leaving in a jar in mineral spirits. Wipe bike down after each ride no running water just damp cloth. Yes all components have an "A" stamped on them. Good idea about the pinching of the cables to see if they bind will try that.


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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 am 


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