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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:50 pm 
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I've been spending time on my old endurance frame after building it back up recently and intend on using it on the indoor trainer, which means I'll be on this frame more than my S5. I want to make the endurance bike more aggressive to keep my flexibility though. Noticed that even just a month off the S5 I didn't feel great on it. Made me panic a bit as I love that bike and how it fits usually.

Will getting a -17 or -20 stem be enough to get a similar fit, or is there more to geometry that means I just wont be able to maintain flexibility if I spend large periods of time off the S5?

The endurance frame is an Infinito CV, both are slammed. I can always just use the S5 on the trainer too. Rotate them, but it's dead nice to just have both bikes sitting there ready to use in their respective places, especially when you're rushing around in the mornings.

What you think, just stick a -17 on it and all good?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Location: Islip, NY
Compare the stack and reach of the two bikes (look online for the geometry).

Factor in any spacers that would add to stack.

Use this to figure out how to get the same handlebar X/Y coordinates with respect to the BB.
http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

No need to just wing it. You can get to within 5mm with a little homework.

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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Location: eh?
Perhaps the reason you didn't feel so great on the S5 is that it is set up too aggressively for you. Perhaps the Infinito has better geometry for you.

Your body doesn't lose flexibility in a month. I spend my winters riding about 6 cm of drop. My summer bike has about 10 cm of drop. The transition always feels great. If it takes time for your body to "adjust", or you have to "work" at it to get comfortable, then the fit may be less then optimal in the first place.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:32 pm 
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@ergott thanks, yes I was actually planning on winging it! You ruined my evening with that chart :D

@ Maybe but I want to improve my flexibility over the winter, not chance it. Perhaps your flexibility stays longer with you if you've been riding for years in a certain position. But I'm a new rider, what 14 months? Maybe guys like me who attain a level of flexibility can lose it faster as well.

Not like I was having back pain or muscle cramping. Just didn't feel at home on it as much as usual. Definitely wouldn't be considering changing fit anywhere near this stage. When the day comes that I can't relax in the drops then I'll be looking at fit again.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:55 pm 
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You can also insert all data and see how it gets with this tool
http://www.bikegeo.net

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:03 pm 
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I don't think you increase or maintain your flexibility by just riding with a lower drop. You either have the flexibility or not.

The single thing that has helped me is a 10 minute yoga / core routine. I started the routine for my back but found that I felt better on the bike on longer rides.

I actually ride the trainer with a riser block under the front wheel. I prefer to sit more upright. The main reason to get lower on the road is aerodynamics. Why not sit 2 or 3 centimeters higher on the trainer?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Posts: 270
I normally plan my stem/spacer using this tools so that i can see how different stack make change to the reach due to steerer tube angle esp on a bike with very slack head tube angle (71 degree on my bike).

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:30 pm 
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AJS914 wrote:
I don't think you increase or maintain your flexibility by just riding with a lower drop. You either have the flexibility or not.

The single thing that has helped me is a 10 minute yoga / core routine. I started the routine for my back but found that I felt better on the bike on longer rides.

I actually ride the trainer with a riser block under the front wheel. I prefer to sit more upright. The main reason to get lower on the road is aerodynamics. Why not sit 2 or 3 centimeters higher on the trainer?


Will address your second point first - I want to use the indoor trainer to get more flexible, I have aims for next year and if I hit them in terms of flexibility and w/kg I'll be looking at getting a TT bike, but I won't be spending that sort cash if I don't get where I want. If I can get the endurance bike rigged not just lower, but also with some clip on bars couple times a week that'd be really good for me.

About what you were saying though - yeah,I was doing the flexibility stuff too when I started riding. The British Cycling recommended ones like the Indian knot and cat stretch. I had issues with ITB from distance running before I took this stuff up so figured I'd stay ahead of the game. Actually ITB is what ended my time running. Anyway, the missus started yoga too when she started riding, quite popular down here.

We stopped all that now. I do think if you have ITB issues you should stretch that area a lot, and aggressively take the foam roller to certain spots, but for general flexibility? I think you need a ton of time spent stretching to achieve anything. She was doing two classes a week, and I was doing the stretch routine three times a week. Did sort of help a little admittedly.

What I did instead was drop my spacers every 500 miles or so. You don't even notice it, well maybe you would if you go to a certain point but I haven't found that yet. Either has the missus. I can't actually go any lower on the S5. Like I said earlier though, it's not so simple as all that, I think newer riders who achieve good levels of flexibility and comfort can lose it faster. Really don't think you can compare a 5 year rider with a 1 year rider, even if their stats look the same on paper.

I saw a comment on the TT forums where a guy was saying it was ridiculous to expect good on the bike flexibility from stretching as time spent is so small. What the science is there I don't actually know though, so keeping an open mind about the best way to get more flexible, but I do want to get more flexible, not keep or lose my current level.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm
Posts: 926
wheelsONfire wrote:
You can also insert all data and see how it gets with this tool
http://www.bikegeo.net



Hexsense wrote:
I normally plan my stem/spacer using this tools so that i can see how different stack make change to the reach due to steerer tube angle esp on a bike with very slack head tube angle (71 degree on my bike).

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php



Awesome cheers! Didn't think to look for a tool :P


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Posts: 1471
I've done yoga regularly in the past. I noticed that when I'm not doing yoga I can't comfortably touch my fingers to the ground in a forward bend. After I'm doing a regular practice of 2-3X per week, I can easily touch my fingers to the ground. It's a good 5 or 6 inches of difference.

IMO, if you are trying to get lower and stay comfortable on the bike stretching, yoga, pilates, core work will all help quite a bit in achieving those goals.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:16 pm 
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Posts: 743
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
It depends how slammed your S5 is. If it's not -17 stem and slammed then you have a chance
Attachment:
shrike.JPG
shrike.JPG [ 12.18 KiB | Viewed 752 times ]


that tool is frame comparison on www.velogicfit.com

As for flexibility. On bike flexibility matters far more than floor flexibility. It mostly comes from adapting your position slowly over time and riding a decent amount. Core strength and stretching will help you adapt faster though.

When doing bike fits I set the rider up for their current strength/flexibility (and it's very clear when those limits are hit if you're using 3D analysis), then we discuss the plan for how they can adapt the position over time if they're so inclined.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:01 am 
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Posts: 926
cyclenutnz wrote:
It depends how slammed your S5 is. If it's not -17 stem and slammed then you have a chance
shrike.JPG

that tool is frame comparison on http://www.velogicfit.com

As for flexibility. On bike flexibility matters far more than floor flexibility. It mostly comes from adapting your position slowly over time and riding a decent amount. Core strength and stretching will help you adapt faster though.

When doing bike fits I set the rider up for their current strength/flexibility (and it's very clear when those limits are hit if you're using 3D analysis), then we discuss the plan for how they can adapt the position over time if they're so inclined.


That looks like the ultimate tool, thanks for having a shot at the input, even guessed the frame sizes right too :P

No spacers on either bike though and the S5 has 130cm stem. Ahem. Paypal you a few dollars to run the data again? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Posts: 743
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
The advantage of this tool is that it's extremely quick to do the comparison. Also that there are 13,000 frame sizes stored (and yes, I collected the data for every one of those).
Because you have a long stem there is more room for an angle change to make a height difference.
If you get one of these https://www.certifiedslammed.com/produc ... ring-cover you should be away laughing (though I don't know how well it will match the top of the headtube)

Attachment:
shrike.JPG
shrike.JPG [ 12.15 KiB | Viewed 567 times ]

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http://www.velogicfit.com - 3D Motion Capture and Frame Finder Software


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:14 am 
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Location: Brisbane
Those don't quite fit - they sit on top of the stock fsa headset and dont' have the rubber seal skirt. But if you clean it out regularly and don't drip sweat into it, should be fine.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm
Posts: 24
Do you own a tape measure? You can easily figure this out by measuring your frames and calculating, or estimating, the increased drop from a different stem angle. I mean... did you even TRY to figure this out by yourself? Good grief.


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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:46 am 


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