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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:11 am
Posts: 3
Hi folks,

Heres one hopefully some/most of you may be able to answer. Traditionally one of the differences between a DA and Ultegra rear mech has been the pulleys. Both are bearings on the DA and there's one bearing and one plain bushing on the Ultegra. I just picked up an 8000 Ultegra and both pulleys look the same which makes me think are they both pulleys? I cant imagine them switching to plain bushings for both as that'd be a step backwards... Unless they started using bearings on Ultegras on the 6800 series as well. I have a 6800 which this long cage 8000 will replace but not checked the 6800.

Ride safe,
Ev


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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:19 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:55 am 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 348
road 11sp

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-R9150-4042.pdf - Y5ZR98010 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-R9100-4058C.pdf - Y5ZR98010 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-9070-3442.pdf - Y5Y898060 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-9000-3330A.pdf - Y5XX98090 - sealed bearing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-R8000-GS-4285.pdf - Y3E998010 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-R8000-SS-4284.pdf - Y3E998010 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6870-3641A.pdf - Y5YC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6800-3608E.pdf - Y5YC98140
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6800-3608B.pdf - Y5YC98110 - sealed bearing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-5800-3712A.pdf - SS - Y5YE98080 - plain busing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-5800-3712A.pdf - GS - Y5YE98090 - plain busing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-5800-3712C.pdf - GS - Y5YE98090 - plain busing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-5800-3712C.pdf - SS - Y5XE98030 - plain busing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-U5000-3968.pdf - Y5RS98010 - plain busing T & G - new G design

road 10sp

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-7970-A-4117.pdf - Y5Y898060 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-7970-2899.pdf - Y5X098090
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-7900-2871B.pdf - Y5X098140
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-7900-2871A.pdf - Y5X098090

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-7800-2254A.pdf - Y5V598150
EV-RD-7800-2254.jpg - Y5V598090 & Y5V598070 - ?? T, sealed bearing G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6770-A-4116.pdf - Y5YC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6770-3291.pdf - Y5X998080 - sealed bearing T, plain busing G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6700-A-3309A.pdf - Y5X998150 - sealed bearing T, plain busing G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6700-A-3309.pdf - Y5X998080 - sealed bearing T, plain busing G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6700-2919B.pdf - Y5X998150 - sealed bearing T, plain busing G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6700-2919A.pdf - Y5X998080 - sealed bearing T, plain busing G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-6600-2358A.pdf - Y5TP98090 & Y5VG98100 - sealed bearing T, ?? G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-4700-3889B.pdf - Y5RF98070 - plain busing T & G

mtb 11sp

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M9050-3817B.pdf - Y5PV98160 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M9000-3787B.pdf - Y5PV98160 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M8050-5154A.pdf - Y5RT98120 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M8000-3859A.pdf - Y5RT98120 - sealed bearing T & G - new G design

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M7000-11-4094.pdf - Y5RS98010 - plain busing T & G - new G design

mtb 10sp

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M986-3430A.pdf - Y5XC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M985-3156A.pdf - Y5XC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M981-3429.pdf - Y5XC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M980-3085A.pdf - Y5XC98110 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M980-3085B.pdf - Y5XC98140

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M820-3391A.pdf - Y5Y298230
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M820-3391.pdf - Y5Y298190 - sealed bearing T, plain bushing G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-T8000-4014A.pdf - Y5XF98130 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-T780-3181A.pdf - Y5XF98130 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-T780-3181.pdf - Y5XR98030

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M786-3321A.pdf - Y5XF98130 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M786-3321.pdf - Y5XF98060 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M781-3320A.pdf - Y5XF98130 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M781-3320.pdf - Y5XF98060 - sealed bearing T & G
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M780-3180A.pdf - Y5XF98060 - sealed bearing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M773-3038C.pdf - Y5XF98130 - sealed bearing T & G
RD-M773-3038.PDF - Y5XF98060 - sealed bearing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M7000-10-3976.pdf - Y5XE98030 - plain busing T & G

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M6000-GS-4183.pdf - Y3E498010 - plain busing T & G - new G design
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-RD-M6000-SGS-4301.pdf - Y3E498020 - plain busing T & G

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Last edited by ooo on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 51 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:11 am
Posts: 3
Thanks ooo - doing some more digging i found the attached document, looks like the pulleys are new for the 8000 series and both seem to use bearings. Doesnt look like the same ones as on the 9100 ones but I imagine it's one of the trickle downs from 9000 series. No plain bushings by the looks of it thought which is good to see. \w/

http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/ULTEGRA_R ... _PARTS.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:59 am
Posts: 83
Location: EU
I will be taking apart mine (cage) next week so I could take some pics if you're interested.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:11 am
Posts: 3
Would be useful, not just for me but also for others in the future. Good to see exactly what trickled down to this gen of Ultegra apart from that shadow style look off the Dura Ace


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:14 pm
Posts: 4
The obvious (and possibly painfully stupid) next question: will the 8000 jockey wheels work with the 6800 cages?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:26 am
Posts: 66
The new 8000 and 9100 seem to have a different tooth profile. Is that to handle the larger cassette range, or is it for something else? I'm also wondering if these new pulleys fit the older 6800 series cages.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 348
According to @Belisarius new guide pulley high tooth design makes RD less compatible with non-shimano chains:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879&start=555#p1337705

Belisarius wrote:
I got the new DA R9100 rear derailleur and SURPRISE: the guide wheel IS NOT SRAM or Campy compatible. To improve the putrid DA gear changes, the GW teeth are Shimano width..So, 15 minutes of my life later, I shaped the GW to a campy chain width, went to LBS and assembled it, replacing the DA 9000 RD. The result astonished the shop- besides being a Mountain inspired design, the R9100 is indeed exceptional. But it is unmatched exceptional with the XG 1190 SRAM and Campy chain set up. The perfect quiet flawless centering is better than EPS. Faster than Campy shifting, stacado SRAM like shifts, and impeccable Campy gear after gear performance.


I have tried new shimano guide pulley design with sram chain - it works,
but I didn't have a chance to compare performance between different chains/pulleys combos

Shimano new design guide pulley (high tooth profile) release history:

2014-04 RD-5800-GS (plain bushing, GS = new design, SGS = old design, pics link, youtube link)
2014-05 RD-M9000
2015-01 RD-M9050
2015-04 RD-M8000
2016-02 RD-U5000-SS (plain bushing, pics link)
2016-03 RD-M7000-11 (plain bushing, youtube link)
2016-06 RD-R9100
2017-01 RD-M8050
2017-03 RD-M6000-GS (10sp, plain bushing, GS = new design, SGS = old design, pics link)
2017-04 RD-R9150
2017-07 RD-R8000
2017-0X RD-R8050

To find which pulley design is used in RD you have to check pdf and real photos, because marketing pictures sometimes show wrong pulley design:

1) RD-4700-GS marketing picture show new pulley design, PDF and real photos show old pulley design:
Attachment:
File comment: 4700 marketing fake pulley
rd-4700-gs-fake-marketing.png
rd-4700-gs-fake-marketing.png [ 18.89 KiB | Viewed 573 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: 4700 real
rd-4700-real-pulley.jpg
rd-4700-real-pulley.jpg [ 4.68 KiB | Viewed 573 times ]


2) RD-5800-GS marketing picture show old pulley design, no GS guide pulley illustration in PDF, real photos show new pulley design:
Attachment:
File comment: 5800 marketing fake pulley
RD-5800-GS-fake-marketing.png
RD-5800-GS-fake-marketing.png [ 20.1 KiB | Viewed 580 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: 5800 real
rd-5800-gs-real-pulley.jpg
rd-5800-gs-real-pulley.jpg [ 5.22 KiB | Viewed 580 times ]


3) RD-U5000-SS marketing picture show old pulley design, PDF and real photos show new pulley design:
Attachment:
File comment: u5000 marketing fake pulley
rd-u5000-fake-marketing.jpg
rd-u5000-fake-marketing.jpg [ 6.76 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: u5000 real
rd-u5000-real-pulley.jpg
rd-u5000-real-pulley.jpg [ 5.19 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]

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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:06 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Posts: 348
new pulley design vs kmc X11SL chain video test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejzq6a1bKC4

First Chain (X11SL Silver) does not fit Jocket Wheel.
(New) Second Chain (X11 Gold) fits 100% (used)

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