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Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=146613
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Author:  53x12 [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

kgt wrote:
Anything to contribute to the thread other than guessing my degrees?


You are the one that keeps speaking of your education and job background. You brought it up first.


kgt wrote:
TK421 I also teach architecture at the university so...



kgt wrote:
That's the way I see it, sure, but I teach in a School of design so...


kgt wrote:
Fortunately I have the experience and education (BTW I teach engineers at a technical university) that allow me to be critical.

Author:  Weenie [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision


Author:  bilwit [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Delorre wrote:
FIJIGabe wrote:
Geordiepaul wrote:
I decided to go with the Emonda.
Light bikes are always nicer to ride than heavier ones....plus it's hilly round ere.

I have my Domane SLR Disc if I want to ride a heavy bike :cry:


Great choice. For WW purposes, you are definitely ahead of the game.

I did dig up this gem. Ryder Hesjedal's Madone 9 from last season weighed in at 7.4kg when equipped with his Aeolus 5 wheels (7.3 w/ Aeolus 3's). Obviously it's using sponsored equipment, but there isn't much room for adding exotic goods to this bike. You can't swap the expander plug, given the proprietary nature of the steerer tube, you can't swap brakes, can't swap seatposts, can't swap most of the components. I've gotten mine to 7.6kg w/ 404 Firecrest clinchers, and I'd love to be able to drop it to 7.5kg, but it doesn't look likely.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ryder-h ... s-gallery/


A more normal 56 H1, with a 110 of 120 cockpit instead of that monster he is using, speedplays, a lighter saddle (arond 150gr or less) and tune skewers would bring the bike below 7kg with ease. Don't forget that those 180mm SRM crank probably weights a ton also :shock: But I totally agree, you don't by a Madone if you are obsessed with ultra light weight bikes.


Dura Ace is also not exactly the lightest groupset out there either. Plenty of amateur racers have a 6.8kg Madone build. The reason why you don't see Madones at the limit in the pro peleton is because they specifically only use them on sprint stages where they don't care about weight. If they wanted to get it to the limit, they could. It's the same reason why we don't see them use Emondas with 60mm+ rims in the Alps. Surely they have clearance for the extra weight but they'd rather add weight on the bike elsewhere and use 25-40mm rims for better handling on those long descents and crosswinds at altitude.

Author:  youngs_modulus [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

kgt wrote:
youngs_modulus wrote:
kgt wrote:
An answer to my lovely followers:
Engineers are designers too.


I'm an engineer, so I can confirm that this is true. I gather you're not an engineer, but rather pointing out that engineers and industrial designers like you sometimes do similar work.


No, I am not industrial designer. Wrong conclusion.
Anything to contribute to the thread other than guessing my degrees?


It's kind of adorable that you think I'm guessing. Engineers don't teach architecture. Here's my contribution: you're either rounding up your qualifications or you're fabricating them.

I can't help noticing that, for all of your complaints about doubters, you're awfully cagey about your actual qualifications. People who know their stuff don't have to be cute about it.

Author:  kgt [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

No pal, there are architects who have an engineer degree as well.

First you believe any BS that a company wants to sell you. Now you try to reconstruct my cv searching among my 6000 + posts.
Oh, you guys are so pathetic...

Author:  53x12 [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

kgt wrote:
First you believe any BS that a company wants to sell you. Now you try to reconstruct my cv searching among my 6000 + posts.
Oh, you guys are so pathetic...


What BS?

Secondly, "WW never forgets."

Author:  wheelsONfire [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Ok OP, what are you landing? Madone or Emonda?

I would like to ask what you think speaks for either M or E?

I also wonder, when the bike is a few years old, what will you feel about working on a bike that is more complex and demanding (M), compared to the easier (E) bike?

I have noticed that what annoys me in due time, is those small things that proves more hassle than needed.

Author:  youngs_modulus [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

The OP said a few days ago that he went with the Emonda.

Author:  Geordiepaul [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

youngs_modulus wrote:
The OP said a few days ago that he went with the Emonda.


That was me, I wasn't the OP

Author:  youngs_modulus [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Oops! My mistake. Thanks for correcting me.

Author:  Geoff [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Soooo, I just got my Emonda from Alberto last week. That is a very nice ride. I will not be able to get the Madone until the end of the Season to post my impressions, though...

Author:  Calnago [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Geoff wrote:
Soooo, I just got my Emonda from Alberto last week. That is a very nice ride. I will not be able to get the Madone until the end of the Season to post my impressions, though...

From Alberto? You mean that seriously, as in his castaway bike? If so, you must give us way more than "it is a very nice ride". Is it one of the new Emondas recently released. I know the Emonda SLR can be built very light. But putting heavier components on it alone I don't think would even bring it to the minimum of 6.8kg, assuming the components aren't complete boat anchors, but maybe. And I don't believe for a second that if extra weight was still needed, that the extra weight would be in the form of lead weights in the seat tube or the like. No, if they needed extra weight, they would do it with extra layups to make the frame stronger for their star riders. So... please tell us more... with pics... I don't care about the Madone, but this... yes. But aren't you quite a bit shorter than Alberto? Wouldn't be the same bike size, correct? Tell us more.

Author:  ergott [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Image

Author:  FIJIGabe [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Calnago wrote:
I don't believe for a second that if extra weight was still needed, that the extra weight would be in the form of lead weights in the seat tube or the like. No, if they needed extra weight, they would do it with extra layups to make the frame stronger for their star riders.


No manufacturer would do this. It could potentially mess up the balance and handling of the bike, with no real advantage. Adding weights to the bike is the preferred method for multiple reasons. First, the aforementioned riding dynamics. Secondly, because by adding weights, you can add it to the least impactful area on the bike, so it can handle like a lighter bike, but with the required weight. Adding weight is a common technique among racing series (bike and auto racing).

Author:  53x12 [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Calnago wrote:
Geoff wrote:
Soooo, I just got my Emonda from Alberto last week. That is a very nice ride. I will not be able to get the Madone until the end of the Season to post my impressions, though...

From Alberto? You mean that seriously, as in his castaway bike? If so, you must give us way more than "it is a very nice ride". Is it one of the new Emondas recently released. I know the Emonda SLR can be built very light. But putting heavier components on it alone I don't think would even bring it to the minimum of 6.8kg, assuming the components aren't complete boat anchors, but maybe. And I don't believe for a second that if extra weight was still needed, that the extra weight would be in the form of lead weights in the seat tube or the like. No, if they needed extra weight, they would do it with extra layups to make the frame stronger for their star riders. So... please tell us more... with pics... I don't care about the Madone, but this... yes. But aren't you quite a bit shorter than Alberto? Wouldn't be the same bike size, correct? Tell us more.


A properly designed and engineered composite frame is properly designed and engineered. You don't need to add additional layers of composites.

Author:  Calnago [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision

Uh... of course they do it. It was either Scott or Specialized who did this exact thing for Cavendish. The bike was below the limit and they specifically said when interviewed that rather than add weights they preferred to beef up the frame. Colnago has done it for their Roubaix bikes. The Trek Koppenberg, while it was made available to the public in very limited numbers and sizing, also has added layups. Just a few examples.
If you were a star performer and you had the choice of adding lead weights to a superlight frame or to have it made stronger in order to meet the weight limit, which would you choose. It's a no brainer for me.
Both methods have been used for sure in the past... adding weights and/or different layups etc., not saying it's being done here but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised and if the weight they needed to make up was significant I'd much rather be on a bike that had a little more material in it.

Author:  Weenie [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Trek Madone vs. Trek Emonda decision


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